do you have the power...?

[Dean Williams]

Hi folks

Whilst doing a periodic at a nursing home, i found a 3 phase 32A isolator that was faulty, one of the old Bill types with the forks and the ceramic guards.
One set of forks had bent and was causing a bit of burning etc etc and essentially was a fire hazard.

I informed the head of the house and said i was turning it off and locking it off. She said "do you have the authority to do so as its working ok and we need the switch on" (it was supplying an industrial washing machine).

well to be honest i'm not sure.
Do we, as electricians, have the power to lock off/isolate faulty equipment or do we have to have permission.

after all, it was a fire hazard so i though the answer was yes, i do have the authority...but where would it end?
i'm currently testing a large theatre, if i found an equally dangerous item, for example the power supply to the theatr dimmers, turning it off possibly result in the cancellation of a show etc etc, and could my company get in trouble, be sued, etc.

so basically....do we have any authority to switch off/lock off in the event of a fire risk etc???

 

[telectrix]

best thing to do is to issue a danger notice, 2 copies, get them to sign your's.

 

[netblindpaul]

You have the authority and responsibility to turn it off, but not lock it off.
It is then down to the client to re-energise IF they can, their problem, not yours.
If it is really that dangerous issue an EDN and get it signed for.
If it is more dangerous than that then you must inform the DNO for them to disconnect the whole install under EAWR89, PUWER98 & ESQCR which are statute law.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

If I found something that showed clear and present danger than I would turn it off and or leave disconnected that circuit immediately and would issue a Danger Notice. I would then try to help them to some sort of solution (should it be an item/circuit that needs to be on urgently), should they refuse my solution then what more can be done?

At least I would have done all I can at that time.

If they turn it back on or reconnect when I have gone, I am covered, Danger notice given, solution offered and left off when I left.

Damn I type slow, was no replies when I started!!

 

[netblindpaul]

clear and present danger

Was it a good film mate? :devilish: :cheesy:

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The only person who have the authority to disconnect any electrical installation, are DNO representatives, Fire, Police and EOD officers, and then only for reasons of safety.
The DNO are now not allowed to disconnect for non-payment, without first obtaining a court order, and then contacting the Local Authority.
If you carry out any action which you have not been contracted or employed to carry out, then you could well find yourself being taken to court.

 

[Dean Williams]

Thanks
ive never actually issued or seen a danger notice before. are they NICEIC forms?

 

[netblindpaul]

Spinlondon,
No one said anything about disconnecting, just using the isolation to isolate the circuit, if you are doing a PIR, then you will have to isolate, if the circuit is unsafe then you cannot re-energise, so you are not doing anything wrong as long as you leave the circuit in a state that the client can turn it back on if they are capable of doing so because of the fault.
If you left the thing unsafe then you could also find yourself in court, in your scenario it would be a civil case, if it were to be a safety issue and someone were injured or killed then it would be criminal law.

 

[Dean Williams]

so leaving it unsafe would be a bad idea....ive found over 10 circuits at the theatr where 16a and 30a fuses are protecting 1.5mm cables, and in one case, a 63a mcb protecting 2x 2.5mm cables in parallel....should i pull the fuses, turn them off......and should i issue a danger notice

 

[La Poste]

What happens if it is a big circuit running many computers in an office?
The cost would be huge.

 

[netblindpaul]

Dean,
You must have had to isolate the circuit to do the test & inspect, thus you don't re-energise you issue the notice & leave it to the customer.

La Poste,
Same as Dean, you would have to isolate to do the work so you leave it to the customer to re-energise, not your problem theirs.

You are not the electric police, but you are not allowed to re-energise a dangerous circuit either.

 

[Dean Williams]

i'll have to get some danger notices...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Spinlondon,
No one said anything about disconnecting, just using the isolation to isolate the circuit, if you are doing a PIR, then you will have to isolate, if the circuit is unsafe then you cannot re-energise, so you are not doing anything wrong as long as you leave the circuit in a state that the client can turn it back on if they are capable of doing so because of the fault.
If you left the thing unsafe then you could also find yourself in court, in your scenario it would be a civil case, if it were to be a safety issue and someone were injured or killed then it would be criminal law.

Actually they did mention disconnecting, which is why I stuck my twopenneth worth in.

 

[netblindpaul]

Sorry Spinlondon, then I agree, I may have been the one who said isolation then.

So as Spinlondon says, you cannot disconnect, however, you can isolate.

 

[netblindpaul]

Spinlondon,
I have just re-read the OP which is the post that I am really responding to and that does not mention disconnection, just isolation, so I think, my comments stand, though your comment wrt disconnection is also correct IMHO.