do you have the power...?

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes I agree, the OP did not mention disconnection, although one of the replies mentioned it.
The OP did however refer to locking off, which to my mind would be akin to disconnection.
With gas, as I understand it, an engineer can condemn an appliance, turn off the supply and whilst not locking off, can affix a lable, which indicates the supply has been turned off for safety and I believe indicates that it is an offence for someone to turn the supply back on without first rectifying the fault.

 

[pauljpickering8]

It's a shame when in our country weve got to say legally to issue a danger notice and if the client wants to turn it back on then its ok. We are the electricians and should have the power to disconnect. me personally if I knew the client would just turn it back on and not do anything to fix the problem I would disconnect because at the end of the day I would rather be in court than having to find out there was a fire and somebody got killed with me knowing that the client was going to turn the circuit back on with no intention of fixing the problem, Thats my two cents anyway.

 

[netblindpaul]

paul,
I agree with your sentiments, but, unfortunately we can't and I feel it is very wrong!
The sooner we get the authority like the gas guys the better.
Mind the last time I issued EDN's I attached danger notices to the circuit isolation, I did not prevent it from being re-energised as that would not be allowed, but, I did make it obvious that the circuit was dangerous to re-energise.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The problem is, that unlike Police, Fire officers or gas engineers, there is no accountability for electricians.
If you as a self employed electrician were to do something that the householder or duty holder thought was wrong or out of order, who would they contact to make a complant?
You are not required to be a member of a registration body, there is no chain of comand or complaints procedure.
We don't even have a set of Regulations that we all agree upon the meaning of.
Then of course, we all know that electricians are just out to fleece the public for as much as much as can be got, always trying to get extra work.

 

[pauljpickering8]

Its frustrating because ive dealt with alot of clients who have total disregard to the dangers of electricity, as long as it works there not bothered, and if someone gets hurts will then fix it. Worked in a bunch of tesco's last year and was totally dumbstruck, one shop had about 60% of the light switches with the neutrals switched lol

 

[netblindpaul]

Well paul I think you should have gone through a tonne of EDN's mate!
It is so, just so frustrating!

 

[pauljpickering8]

Then of course, we all know that electricians are just out to fleece the public for as much as much as can be got, always trying to get extra work.

Exactly, because we are portrayed like this, when we say "Danger Notice" people automatically think were on the blag, and TBH I probably would if I had no understanding of electrical installations.

 

[malcolmsanford]

so leaving it unsafe would be a bad idea....ive found over 10 circuits at the theatr where 16a and 30a fuses are protecting 1.5mm cables, and in one case, a 63a mcb protecting 2x 2.5mm cables in parallel....should i pull the fuses, turn them off......and should i issue a danger notice

Why would you want to issue a danger notice for this, I would certainly code it a 2 but be careful issuing danger notices left, right and centre is like the little boy that cried wolf.

 

[mogga]

if it is exposed live Id repair,isolate as appropriate and notify client ( head office not the wee handyman or manager on site) of any problems found while Im on site then await instruction while I finish if no reply by times up Id leave it isolated and put lable across notifying such
as Malkky says issing EDNs all over the place is worthless

BACK to the OP If its "showing signs of burning " then IMO code 2 its NOT imediate but requires URGENT attention WE dont have the caertblanch authority to Isolate stuff that MIGHT cause a problem but we had a duty of care to report to client
IMO Those clients who get FWT done by different companys each time are only trying to not repair faults found but to say We have done a PIR

 

[Electro-tech]

What happens if it is a big circuit running many computers in an office?
The cost would be huge.

A permit to work would cover any liability on the circuits being worked on from disruption of supply causing financial or Data loss.On completion note on the permit the Dangers or defects found when handing back.

 

[gap30]

i used to sub contract to a large firm in the north west, they had a contract on various pubs in the north west, they covered over 2000 pubs, anyway one of the lads last went to repair a faulty socket, did the job and carried out a quick zs and the reading was way out. So he next carried out a ze (it was a tt btw) again the readings were way out so he contacted the DNO and they immediately isolated the installation and pulled the fuses. So after a bit of messing around we could not find the rod for love nor money it was buried somewhere so we installed 4 yes 4 new rods and the reading was still pants, we went back the next day fitted rod extenders (we were screwing 4 rods together and sending them home -the ground was terrible) 16 rods it took us to get a good reading. Now the punchline - the pub was isolated for 4 days and they lost about about 50 grands worth of trade (this is a very busy pub) The company lost the contract 30 years they had done it, the company then went bust - 70 years old the company was, it was horrible. About 90 men were made redundant, looking back now would it have been worth it to say nothing? Also i need to mention this guy was a top sparky with over 30 years experience and very well respected.


With hindsight what you do?

 

[mogga]

this can happen GAP On the other side of the coin what would the cost have been if Mr Jones had went for a PeePee n got electricuted while drying his hands and how would the electrician who"Turned a blind eye" have felt then??

 

[gap30]

this can happen GAP On the other side of the coin what would the cost have been if Mr Jones had went for a PeePee n got electricuted while drying his hands and how would the electrician who"Turned a blind eye" have felt then??

i would have done the same thing again

 

[IQ Electrical]

Why would you want to issue a danger notice for this, I would certainly code it a 2 but be careful issuing danger notices left, right and centre is like the little boy that cried wolf.

And that's probably the reason that we are not afforded the powers, I see this almost every day on abysmal previous periodic inspections!

No rcd protection to sockets-code 1

Main rcd fails to trip (time delayed)-code 1

No cross bonding to boiler or kitchen sink-code 1

Earth rod resistance is 231 Ohms-code 1

There's a selection from the past couple of weeks, all different 'inspectors' god help us if they had the power to isolate or disconnect!