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- Thread starter HandySparks
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Guest125
We had an issue today where we needed to fill out a permit to work on electrical sytems. This was given to us by the PC to do. Then we had to hand it back to the site manager to 'sign off'. My comment was "what competencies do you have to sign this permit off?" "None". Was the answer. Absolute madness.
Off topic a bit I know.
Off topic a bit I know.
'baby ----' now, but one day I will grow up. And then it's gonna get ugly! :89:
we work live, got told a story today that had me in stiches.
an electrician got told they are not allowed to work live on this board, he picks up radio and tells the hospital
"There can be no accidents for the next hours as the power is being turned off" lol, i wish i could have seen the formans face
an electrician got told they are not allowed to work live on this board, he picks up radio and tells the hospital
"There can be no accidents for the next hours as the power is being turned off" lol, i wish i could have seen the formans face
I put rarely as my honest answer. Take it on a case by case basis and act accordingly. I am happier when I have a 3036 fuse firmly in my pocket rather than simply isolating a MCB I must admit.
My lovely Wiha sidecutters, which were new at the time, got a nice little hole when I mistakenly cut a live cable. They are great for stripping 1.5mm now.
I should probably be more cautious though. Time to dust off the MCB lock I think...
My lovely Wiha sidecutters, which were new at the time, got a nice little hole when I mistakenly cut a live cable. They are great for stripping 1.5mm now.
I should probably be more cautious though. Time to dust off the MCB lock I think...
K
Knobhead
I can only speak for the industrial side.
All the companies I’ve worked for, no permit or incorrect isolation and you’re in deep ----. This covered more than just electrical, all plant services and dangers were included.
In the electrical department we had a get out. Sections of plant could be handed over for test. You can’t test many things with no power and bits isolated.
You had to have a damn good reason for asking for a “sanction to test”.
The isolation procedure at the first place was 170 pages covering just about anything you could think of.
The foundry wanted to improve their systems and I was lumbered with the job. Quick get out for me, phone the first company. They sent me the full document, the management went in to a state shock when I dropped it on their desks.
Isolation procedures need commitment from everyone involved.
What goes on in the domestic field I don’t know but I’m getting the feeling its very lackadaisical.
All the companies I’ve worked for, no permit or incorrect isolation and you’re in deep ----. This covered more than just electrical, all plant services and dangers were included.
In the electrical department we had a get out. Sections of plant could be handed over for test. You can’t test many things with no power and bits isolated.
You had to have a damn good reason for asking for a “sanction to test”.
The isolation procedure at the first place was 170 pages covering just about anything you could think of.
The foundry wanted to improve their systems and I was lumbered with the job. Quick get out for me, phone the first company. They sent me the full document, the management went in to a state shock when I dropped it on their desks.
Isolation procedures need commitment from everyone involved.
What goes on in the domestic field I don’t know but I’m getting the feeling its very lackadaisical.
usually in domestic its, flick it off then a bit of tape over breaker
G
GMES
I'm with Tony on this one, it's a different world working in the industrial sector. I have worked on many varied things from huge crushers and tyre shredders to furnaces, foundries and the list goes on.
It doesn't bear thinking about what could go wrong if there wasn't an extremely stringent isolation procedure in place, I have unfortunately witnessed a couple of serious injuries due to lack of safe isolation and I don't want to see another one as long as I live.
It doesn't bear thinking about what could go wrong if there wasn't an extremely stringent isolation procedure in place, I have unfortunately witnessed a couple of serious injuries due to lack of safe isolation and I don't want to see another one as long as I live.
T
tazz
Most commercial we used 2 sets of padlocks, our own and the main contractors.
Permit to work, and then only when main contractor and electrical contractor are both happy that the circuit(s) have been dead test again, will both padlocks come off and re powered.
Permit to work, and then only when main contractor and electrical contractor are both happy that the circuit(s) have been dead test again, will both padlocks come off and re powered.
i dont think anyone is disputing that, usually in a shutdown procedure its good practise to turn off upstream and test at local isolater before locking off.
This proves two things
1. the legend is correct
2. there is not multiple supplies going ti machine.
unless you are familiar with these heavy machines you shouldn't be working alone on them for safety reasons.
how do you know there isnt a supply going into a different part of the machine that isnt interlocked?
it is not always possible to see the cables entering the machine and depending on what it is that doesn't always help if everything is wired in swa
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Guest125
Test before touch. Always. This way if anything has been missed during the locking off procedure then you would be aware. Even if locked off I would still test before touch as I went along.
T
tazz
Don`t go using your multimeter on those live rails now UKesrail....
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Guest125
Nope. I am not allowed to use that tool. They are called conductor rails these days. You have reminded me that when a DCCR is isolated ALL engineers working within the area have to witness the test being carried out. We are not allowed to take the testers word for it. It MUST be witnessed. Good practice to use when testing after locking off also.
A
andyelectric
In the RN we had a tag out system incorporating electrical, hydraulic, moving machinery and a shiphaz system governing the likes of radiation emissions.
For electrical isolation officially the tagout system was always used. However with Weapon Engineers working mostly in their own compartments an unofficial 'risk based' isolation procedure was used and it was rare to find WE tagouts for short term work(fuses in the pocket was more likely) . Long term isolations were a different matter.
For electrical isolation officially the tagout system was always used. However with Weapon Engineers working mostly in their own compartments an unofficial 'risk based' isolation procedure was used and it was rare to find WE tagouts for short term work(fuses in the pocket was more likely) . Long term isolations were a different matter.
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Guest125
Real world...
It always makes me smile of risk assessments carried out on war ships.
A
andyelectric
Health and Safety used to be given a nod and a wink, but now it is heavily applied as crown immunity(I may have the wrong wording there) giving exemption from prosecution was removed.
In certain areas it definitely still gets ignored, the fact that it will invariably be the MOD and not the individual who gets prosecuted helps this.
Certain things, like 2 man lifts for gunnery rounds, scaffolding for reaching high areas are so impractical on a ship.
Why is that then? there are a lot more risky bits of kit on one of HM Ships than in an electrical installation, don't one of those blowing up do we?
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Guest125
I said that tongue in cheek - RA for working on electrical work and missiles coming out the other end... lol.
A
andyelectric
You are correct Pete. I'd take an electrical shock over being irradiated by a pointing radar anyday.
The shiphaz procedure I mentioned is extremely robust, and for outside contractors permits to work need to be signed by various personnel. The tagout system when properly used is also a very transparent and robust system.
Prior to health and safety, there were always safe working practices onboard, it's just more formalised now, the main example being written risk assessments for just about every conceivable job onboard.
T
Tidy Max
Just as well you lock out and don't lock off!
T
thekingiam
Just cut through the cables your working on at the consumer unit no need to turn off consumer unit and everyone's happy simples
'Crown immunity' ... correct, not sure that it has been removed from all areas of MOD activity though.
In the world of military aviation there are similar concerns over tool control. After doing the right job, it is part of doing the right job right; loose articles, either left in the wrong place by tradespeople or lost by aircrew or passengers have lead to fatal incidents. The hassle and 'lost' operating and maintainer hours as a result of such an incident are significant! To that end all tools, should be 'tagged out' and back in however great the pressure of work or aircrew shouting for their 'cab' before an aircrafts' maintenance paperwork is 'coordinated' and the aircraft is allowed to fly! The real difficulties arrise with 'snags' that occur on 'crew-in' when there are no 'hot' spares.
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Very rare. Either tape or keep the switch off tell the customer not to switch on or shout yolo and change whatever live ... once changed a CU live, stuck the meter tails in 2 massive chock blocks.
Some will read that and think joker, some will read that and think this nob is telling the truth ... all vote now!
Some will read that and think joker, some will read that and think this nob is telling the truth ... all vote now!
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Guest125
I hear you. Probably best putting this comment in the pub though away from eyes that may take what you said as good advice.
Is this a do as I say comment and not what I do???
worked on some land based stuff many moons ago
lol ... If people take what i said seriously, then to be honest, they deserve to feel the full force of electricity.
How much was it reduced from? sounds like a good deal
nah dont use chock block, these are what you want.
couple of these will do you grand.
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nah dont use chock block, these are what you want.
couple of these will do you grand.
The image does not show!
nah dont use chock block, these are what you want.
couple of these will do you grand.
So long as they don't 'come off in your hand' ... they are better than IP2X!
yup, cover in tape as well.
put them on, pull tails out and put in new board, job done.
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Guest77
[h=2]Do you lock off?[/h]
I beg your pardon? Do you? does your wife know you are doing it? does she do it for you?= Post reported :biggrin:
I beg your pardon? Do you? does your wife know you are doing it? does she do it for you?= Post reported :biggrin:
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Guest77
Hmm at least 11 liars here lol, so you go into a empty house to add one socket next to a socket on the ring, you lock off the breaker in the board even though it is a half hour job and the house completely empty? yeah right, I really believe you chuckle.
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Guest77
No, your Scottish, I don't like the sweaty socks :49:
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GMES
It's the Scottish Taxi driver
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