Do you not feel that the term Electrical Trainee is derogatory

[dazza1981]

How come he never went to college?

When I was in my 3rd year I worked with a 'mate' who didn't have any electrical qualifications and had been doing it his whole life; his dad was a sparks (I'd worked with him on the previous job) and he knew the boss so he was on more money than me. He seemed to think he'd avoided college and had just picked everything up on site instead, and then some.
He didn't have a clue.

I have no idea why he never went to college.... not really my business but he runs rings round most sparks on site

 

[MDJ]

When i qualified a couple of years ago i was lucky enough to be working as a sparks doing an apprenticeship.... but the majority in my class were office boys and literally had no idea how to even strip cable or what fixings were required to fix swa etc.
Saying that they were awesome at the maths and formulas etc which i wasnt but they all got there certificates and would be shocking on site.
I guess my point is yes the theory is needed and core knowledge but if you are working alongside a decent spark or sparks and getting hands on and really want to learn then it is doable to skip college.
Although most sites want an ecs card with your qualifications on the back.

Absolutely today they do, but in the 50-s and 60s experience and a directors signature got them the Card, today the paper work is required and to be fair rightly so. A combination of 3-4 years at college and working on site with Electricians must be the way forward in the trade, or what is left of it due to it being broken up into modules now.

 

[dazza1981]

Absolutely today they do, but in the 50-s and 60s experience and a directors signature got them the Card, today the paper work is required and to be fair rightly so. A combination of 3-4 years at college and working on site with Electricians must be the way forward in the trade, or what is left of it due to it being broken up into modules now.

YEP mike could not agree more.

 

[Badged01]

Fuels the debate on competency! Is it a mixture of theory, training and experience or are there exceptions? Isnt this how we ended up with the so called Electrical Trainee problem? Someone decided you didnt need to have all 3 in-depth? Once you start bending rules down the slippery slide to the bottom you go .......

 

[MDJ]

Fuels the debate on competency! Is it a mixture of theory, training and experience or are there exceptions? Isnt this how we ended up with the so called Electrical Trainee problem? Someone decided you didnt need to have all 3 in-depth? Once you start bending rules down the slippery slide to the bottom you go .......

Great point, I think if you go to college and never go on site at all then the 5 week course is a total joke, on the other hand I suppose if you are an experienced electricians mate who has worked on site for ten years then take the 5 week course you could be considered a very experienced electrician once the paper work comes through.

 

[dazza1981]

Fuels the debate on competency! Is it a mixture of theory, training and experience or are there exceptions? Isnt this how we ended up with the so called Electrical Trainee problem? Someone decided you didnt need to have all 3 in-depth? Once you start bending rules down the slippery slide to the bottom you go .......

Badged dont get me wrong im not condoning skipping college mate and doing a 1 month course.
But i was just pointing out the fact that a chap on site has no tickets at all yet his work is some of the neatest i have seen and he really knows his stuff!!!

 

[Badged01]

I have known some good journeymen "electricians" who are well grounded in the domain they work in -- outside of that?!?!. But once we start saying sack the theory training all you need to do is work on site for --- years we are well and truely on a slippery slope. Im guessing this was part of the arguement for why the Electrical Trainee course could be introduced?

But has been stated, a journeyman who does a Electrical Trainee course could well end up being more experienced and qualified than and apprentice trained holder of the super dupper JIB cards!!

 

[dazza1981]

I have known some good journeymen "electricians" who are well grounded in the domain they work in -- outside of that?!?!. But once we start saying sack the theory training all you need to do is work on site for --- years we are well and truely on a slippery slope. Im guessing this was part of the arguement for why the Electrical Trainee course could be introduced?

But has been stated, a journeyman who does a Electrical Trainee course could well end up being more experienced and qualified than and apprentice trained holder of the super dupper JIB cards!!

Also it sort of pi$$es me off a little because you have had to do your 5 year apprenticeship and and the revision for college and crap money etc etc.
It should really be NO COLLEGE, NO QUALIFICATIONS, THEN NO SPARKING.

 

[MDJ]

I think the issue we all have is the man or woman off the street who were lets say for example an office clerk until the middle of last years and 35 years old, never been on site in their lives and fancied a change of career. So they find 6-8k and go to a skill centre or college for 5 weeks and then take a Part P, 17th and pat testing multi choice exam, then afterwards go self employed, chuck 500 sobs in a brown envelope to a scheme and start changing distribution Boards in peoples houses. A lot of these short course guys are from eastern europe as well and can hardly speak english. I have the greatest respect to anyone who wants to work and improve and become a decent spark, the trouble is the way these poor unsuspecting individuals are conned by these colleges etc. Regardless of what some of the Trolls on here think I am all for trainees and improvers, I have trained and employed several and always try to encourage them. I know there are some really good lads on here who took the short course route, they are constantly trying to improve and fair play to them. They are however a small minority in general and we are seeing more and more 5wws looking for work after being conned, it needs to stop, for their sakes and the trades. The annoying thing is some of the questions asked and thats what gets us all riled up, "I have just changed a fuse board and the rcd is tripping, I have left my tester at work, does the Bonding need to be done, can I spur a shaver light off a shower, if so can I stick a joint box under the floor and tee in that way, can I issue a minor works certificate for a new circuit for an outside socket, what certificate do I need to issue for a rewire, can I install a pendant light in a shower cubicle" these types of questions are really DIY questions and if the people asking them have done short courses then are the short courses value for money and are the people competant to be let loose on someones house? The whole system needs a shake up and tensions are getting high in a lot of posts with bickering about these courses, 6-8k FFS these poor people are being ripped off.

 

[dazza1981]

I think the issue we all have is the man or woman off the street who were lets say for example an office clerk until the middle of last years and 35 years old, never been on site in their lives and fancied a change of career. So they find 6-8k and go to a skill centre or college for 5 weeks and then take a Part P, 17th and pat testing multi choice exam, then afterwards go self employed, chuck 500 sobs in a brown envelope to a scheme and start changing distribution Boards in peoples houses. A lot of these short course guys are from eastern europe as well and can hardly speak english. I have the greatest respect to anyone who wants to work and improve and become a decent spark, the trouble is the way these poor unsuspecting individuals are conned by these colleges etc. Regardless of what some of the Trolls on here think I am all for trainees and improvers, I have trained and employed several and always try to encourage them. I know there are some really good lads on here who took the short course route, they are constantly trying to improve and fair play to them. They are however a small minority in general and we are seeing more and more 5wws looking for work after being conned, it needs to stop, for their sakes and the trades. The annoying thing is some of the questions asked and thats what gets us all riled up, "I have just changed a fuse board and the rcd is tripping, I have left my tester at work, does the Bonding need to be done, can I spur a shaver light off a shower, if so can I stick a joint box under the floor and tee in that way, can I issue a minor works certificate for a new circuit for an outside socket, what certificate do I need to issue for a rewire, can I install a pendant light in a shower cubicle" these types of questions are really DIY questions and if the people asking them have done short courses then are the short courses value for money and are the people competant to be let loose on someones house? The whole system needs a shake up and tensions are getting high in a lot of posts with bickering about these courses, 6-8k FFS these poor people are being ripped off.

BOSH!!!!! Enough said

 

[Badged01]

It all boils down to having a baseline definition of what the electrical trade wants as 'competency'. As far as I can see there isnt one that everyone can stand behind.

Like it or not the Govt (we the democracy have elected) has decided that the providers (NECIEC, ECA etc ...) can assess if someone is competent to do part 'P' work. The training providers just provide course as anyone can do if they see a market for something. They aint the problem .... its the people who decide they are 'competent' not those who train them. If the training aint good enough then the assessors shouldnt accept them as 'competent'?!?!

 

[MDJ]

It all boils down to having a baseline definition of what the electrical trade wants as 'competency'. As far as I can see there isnt one that everyone can stand behind.

Like it or not the Govt (we the democracy have elected) has decided that the providers (NECIEC, ECA etc ...) can assess if someone is competent to do part 'P' work. The training providers just provide course as anyone can do if they see a market for something. They aint the problem .... its the people who decide they are 'competent' not those who train them. If the training aint good enough then the assessors shouldnt accept them as 'competent'?!?!

Very True, I know what everyone here thinks, DSs poll was voted on pretty heavily, I can't find it though.