Dodgy meter move, how to fix?

[sw600]

Hi all

I have just bought an old house. At some point in the past someone moved the meter and consumer unit from their original position next to the incoming head (?) to about 8m away, using pyro cable. There is also a 60A fuse next to the meter. I don't know what size the fuse in the head is yet, as this is handily boxed in behind some plywood. I assume this move wasn't entirely legal.

Now I need to uprate everything to 100A for a new shower, but UK Power Networks have washed their hands of this by claiming that they can't uprate the cabling between their head and the other fuse/meter/CU, and that I should get an electrician to do it, before they can fit a 100A fuse. I called a reputable electrician and he said he wouldn't touch it. He gave me the number for a less reputable electrician who will do it, but I want to ensure that he is doing something safe, if still not entirely legal.

What should I do here? Should UKPN be doing this instead? Or even my electricity supplier's engineer?

thanks

Dan

 

[westward10]

Going to needs some pics of the relevant parts.

 

[Spoon]

I can understand both opinions.
UKPN have not authorized the original move of the meter, so why should they have to pay for the new cable.
Electricians are not meant to to any work before the main meter.
Have you asked UKPN for a quote, to see how much they will charge for the work?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Another option is of course, that the work was done by the REC before UKPN took over, but UKPN have no records of the work.

 

[shaun1]

Can the meter go back where you think it was next to the service head, with a small switch fuse or similar. You could then run a submain to the CU location and all would be above board.

 

[buzzlightyear]

He gave me the number for a less reputable electrician who will do it,

I will move it for 10bit coins .

 

[buzzlightyear]

I don't know what size the fuse in the head is yet,

There is also a 60A fuse next to the meter

60amp .

 

[Squid]

Should be a simple job as I had the same situation in my flat rebuild, the head terminated in a neighbours flat below (old 70's conversion) my sparks ran an armoured from there to the new meter position and all was fine, where in London are you?

Oh and fit a proper shower.

 

[Wilko]

Yes, some pics please.
Painfully Interestingly, your supplier of electricity own the meter and we are not permitted to break the seals on the meter to attach the new cables you will require.

 

[westward10]

The OP is a new member so can posts be relevant to his question.

 

[freddo]

I have seen repositioned meters like this before, one wired in Pyro the other in concentric cable, both done by DNO.

 

[mjf]

Sounds like a job done before privatisation. The tails from the cut out to the meter are normally the suppliers problem not the DNO. But most suppliers only seem interested in renewing tails a short distance. I would contact the supplier and get the meter put back next to the cut out and ask for an isolation switch. The tails from the isolation switch to the consumer unit are your problem/ electricians.

 

[Cid]

Yeah you need to contact your energy supplier. Some do this for free but a 8m run unlikely. Best to have meter moved back next to the service head.

 

[Squid]

Sounds like a job done before privatisation. The tails from the cut out to the meter are normally the suppliers problem not the DNO. But most suppliers only seem interested in renewing tails a short distance. I would contact the supplier and get the meter put back next to the cut out and ask for an isolation switch. The tails from the isolation switch to the consumer unit are your problem/ electricians.

Funny but I only noticed when I renovated my flat that the Pyro went to the CSU and the main fuse was in a cupboard next to the head in the flat below.

I think in a lot of these scenarios as you say was before privatisation and happened a lot where houses where converted in to flats, can't imagine the younger sparks being able to terminate a PYRO.

 

[sw600]

Thanks all for the replies. I forgot to mention that my supplier (Bulb) also refused to get involved. UKPN have refused to do the work, and would not quote.

I had been wondering about the seals, since presumably only UKPN can open up their head, and only Bulb can open up the meter, so how does anything ever get done without at least two parties there simultaneously?

I like the idea of moving the meter, perhaps I ca re-phrse it in those terms to Bulb. But aren't you supposed to limit meter tails to 3m?

 

[Spoon]

But aren't you supposed to limit meter tails to 3m?

You bung on a fused isolator if it's over 3m.

 

[sw600]

Also does there need to be some sort of earth connection from the head to the consumer unit (Currently I think the metal skin of the pyro cable does that?)

I understand enough about home electrics to change sockets or fittings but I have no clue about earthing or whether it's TN-C or whatever.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The skin of the pyro probably doesnt meet today’s requirements for a main earth. You need a sparky on site to decide your options.

 

[mjf]

Sw600
The DNO owns the cable into the cut out from the road and the cut out. In this case uk power networks. The supplier owns the tails from the cut out and the meter. The DNO is fully authorised to cut the seals on the meter and even move the meter (although some DNO's won't move smart meters) so if you were to get your electrician to run new tails from your consumer unit to next to the cut out. You could request a meter move pack from your DNO, and have your electrician there at the same time. The DNO can move the meter and connect the new tails in at the meter end. The electrician at the consumer unit end.
The supplier is fully authorised to cut the seals on the meter and the cut out in order to remove the cut out fuse to make the meter dead to replace it for a smart one or move it or fit an iso switch etc. However due to the smart meter rush many meter men have very little experience and will often be worried about the older cut outs. Neither will touch the old pyro. The thing is when privatisation occurred the suppliers took on the metering and the problem that goes with it. But some suppliers seem to have very few people "on the tools". Where as the DNO's control, maintain and build the network from 132kv down to the 230v in your house. 275kv and 400kv belongs to national grid.

 

[stevels4]

Some pictures would be good, is the cut out metal clad or plastic?
I have in the past run 25mm tails from the cut out to a KMF mounted at the cut out then run split concentric to henley blocks and from there tails to the meter. Fit a double pole isolator after the meter for future isolation purposes. DNOs and MOPs like to have it all close together as once their responsibility ends at the meter load tails where as with a sub main and remote meter position they normally have responsibility for the sub main.
There are still large amounts of 60A cut outs in use, they simply cannot anymore be upgraded by firstly measuring the ZE and if acceptable then fitting a higher current rated fuse. A new cut out may be required and possibly upgrading of the service cable.

 

[mjf]

There should be no henley blocks before the meter , i.e. between the cut out and meter for tampering reasons.

 

[stevels4]

There should be no henley blocks before the meter , i.e. between the cut out and meter for tampering reasons.

That’s overcome by fitting seals to the blocks but having said that seals only have to be cut at any point to gain access for a tamper.