Dodgy trade pictures for your amusement! - 1 Million Views!

[Darkwood]

Right ... Just been nudged to set this up by Paul.M and sounds a good idea following recent threads I've done in the Arms..

Rules....No Offensive material... edit if required before posting as this is the public arena.
Anything to do with the trade or in and around it ...H&S pic's welcome.



I've posted this a few times and this is at a mates house following a kitchen refirb several yrs ago. mg_smile:

 

[Dustydazzler]

The sad thing is the original board was probably quite neat and tidy before all the cavity wall insulation was pumped into the walls and then followed by all the wiring additions and lash ups

 

[James]

If they are polystyrene balls, the whole cable installation is scrap.
if they are polypropylene then it is just the thermal effects you have to consider.

 

[Raptor0014]

If they are polystyrene balls, the whole cable installation is scrap.
if they are polypropylene then it is just the thermal effects you have to consider.

I am told it’s polypropylene. It was only done in Dec so I’d hope it was to modern standards. But I’m not sure how I could prove one way or the other.

Client is going to check with the company that did it. I hope they have good insurance that will cover removal and a possible rewire if it’s the former.

 

[lozarus]

An important reminder on safe isolation - no matter how simple the job. Replacing emergency light fittings:

Isolated CCT at DB. LNE terminals all checked between and confirmed safe to work on.

Note the grey T&E with taped up ends also entering the enclosure.

It would have been easy to assume this was dead, or at least connected to the circuit just isolated that feeds the luminarie (in singles)

Nope.

Fed from an entirely different circuit, still live with tape over the ends. I assume a previous worker found it, couldn't trace it and left it with tape over. Very poor show.

The second photo shows my repair once I'd traced the circuit and made good - just to explain in pictures what I'm probably not doing very well with words.

Volt stick came in handy here. Obviously testing the luminaire with my contact Fluke probes - but it's hard to probe something that's been cut flush with tape wrapped around it....

This is the sort of stupid stuff that kills people.

 

[Raptor0014]

To add more info to the post I made yesterday.

I have a 100A cutout (confirmed as 100A by DNO as they put in an isolator for me in Dec) which feeds in to the property on 16mm tails (25mm to meter and 25mm to isolator then 16mm in)

This leads to a upfront 80A 30mA RCD. Which feeds the main board.

Then there is a feed from the RCD to a Henley block which feeds the board below and that has a 80A 100mA RCD switch and the sockets, cooker and 1 of the showers is on this board.

Then there is a second set of tails jammed into the top of the 100mA RCD feeding the third board on the bottom left which has a 40A 30mA RCD switch.

I’ve put the first pic on again to make it easy to see what I’m describing.

 

[timhoward]

To add more info to the post I made yesterday.

I have a 100A cutout (confirmed as 100A by DNO as they put in an isolator for me in Dec) which feeds in to the property on 16mm tails (25mm to meter and 25mm to isolator then 16mm in)

This leads to a upfront 80A 30mA RCD. Which feeds the main board.

Then there is a feed from the RCD to a Henley block which feeds the board below and that has a 80A 100mA RCD switch and the sockets, cooker and 1 of the showers is on this board.

Then there is a second set of tails jammed into the top of the 100mA RCD feeding the third board on the bottom left which has a 40A 30mA RCD switch.

I’ve put the first pic on again to make it easy to see what I’m describing.

That's going to be a fun one. Are you putting in new 25mm flexi tails?

 

[Raptor0014]

That's going to be a fun one. Are you putting in new 25mm flexi tails?

Yep.

So got to battle with the insulation balls and then I’m putting the complete lash up into one board.

 

[brianmoooore]

Not obvious why there are insulation balls in the CU. There are at least eleven cables that we can see are surface mounted into it, so why is there a hole into the cavity?
The insulation company could argue (quite correctly, if it's an external cavity wall), that there shouldn't be cables in the cavity. The cavity is not built to provide an easy path for sparkies.

 

[DPG]

Not obvious why there are insulation balls in the CU. There are at least eleven cables that we can see are surface mounted into it, so why is there a hole into the cavity?
The insulation company could argue (quite correctly, if it's an external cavity wall), that there shouldn't be cables in the cavity. The cavity is not built to provide an easy path for sparkies.

Fully agree. Never a fan of running wires in a cavity wall. How many houses have meter tails waiting in the cavity waiting for someone to drill through them for an outside tapc etc . No safe zones, no RCD protection etc.

 

[Raptor0014]

Not obvious why there are insulation balls in the CU. There are at least eleven cables that we can see are surface mounted into it, so why is there a hole into the cavity?
The insulation company could argue (quite correctly, if it's an external cavity wall), that there shouldn't be cables in the cavity. The cavity is not built to provide an easy path for sparkies.

There was a hole I could get my arm in at the back of the board. Why I don’t know as only the tails where in it.

This was inside the cavity as I was having to rummage around to dig rubble out as it took me almost 2hrs just to run a new set of 25mm tails.

You can just make out in the far end of the pic my ball chain from my cable rods. That and the ferret cam saved me battling further. Without the cam I’d have never got them up due to the rubble in the cavity.

 

[Raptor0014]

Fully agree. Never a fan of running wires in a cavity wall. How many houses have meter tails waiting in the cavity waiting for someone to drill through them for an outside tapc etc . No safe zones, no RCD protection etc.

Majority of property’s have the tails ran through the cavity. I don’t think I’ve been to a property where the tails aren’t just ran up the cavity from the meter cabinet to the CU.

 

[brianmoooore]

Majority of property’s have the tails ran through the cavity. I don’t think I’ve been to a property where the tails aren’t just ran up the cavity from the meter cabinet to the CU.

Not one that I'm responsible for! The only way I've ever run tails or cables in a cavity is straight in one side and out the other, with a sleeve around them. The only exception is for exterior wall lights, where I might run down at an angle from the ceiling cavity inside. The cable will still be enclosed in conduit, though.

 

[Raptor0014]

Not one that I'm responsible for! The only way I've ever run tails or cables in a cavity is straight in one side and out the other, with a sleeve around them. The only exception is for exterior wall lights, where I might run down at an angle from the ceiling cavity inside. The cable will still be enclosed in conduit, though.

I was referring more to how it's done by the DNO/Supply companies.

 

[brianmoooore]

Never known the DNO or supplier to take tails any further than the meter or isolator (if fitted). Tails out to the meter box are the domestic electricians responsibility.

 

[nicebutdim]

Never known the DNO or supplier to take tails any further than the meter or isolator (if fitted). Tails out to the meter box are the domestic electricians responsibility.

One issue is where services come in to new builds. Our meter box is on the outside of a kitchen wall, with tails coming across that room to CU in utility room. I can't say for certain, but it's very likely that tails run through cavity up to ceiling height.

 

[7029 dave]

Never known the DNO or supplier to take tails any further than the meter or isolator (if fitted). Tails out to the meter box are the domestic electricians responsibility.

Yep through the cavity in nearly all cases

 

[brianmoooore]

One issue is where services come in to new builds. Our meter box is on the outside of a kitchen wall, with tails coming across that room to CU in utility room.

Who designs these things? Is it beyond the wit of the architect to place the incoming supply directly outside the proposed position of the CU.

 

[DPG]

Who designs these things? Is it beyond the wit of the architect to place the incoming supply directly outside the proposed position of the CU.

Fully agree. No need for it, and should never be done.

 

[Raptor0014]

Never known the DNO or supplier to take tails any further than the meter or isolator (if fitted). Tails out to the meter box are the domestic electricians responsibility.

Odd, when they installed my smart meter and upgraded my cutout to 100A they also ran a new set of 25mm tails to the CU.

It’s often impossible to run a straight through sleeved set of tails. In fact in almost every property I’ve worked at you couldn’t. I can only think of one at the moment when I installed an EV charger where the CU was directly behind the cabinet.

Eg the one I did today.

Meter box is outside at chest height. Consumer unit is 2m away at 2 o’clock to the meter and up by the ceiling. The cabinet is also straddling the point where there is an internal separating wall. So I either sleeve the tails straight through in to one room, put some form of trunking or box to cover it and then drill though the wall to the utility where the CU is and then run more trunking up to the CU. (Could also chase into the wall but would be a deep chase and far too invasive). Or I could just follow the existing tails and run it up the cavity.

Out of curiosity. How would you have done it if you always sleeve? Not having a go, I’m always happy to learn other methods. I’ve yet to see a property with a straight through sleeved set of tails.

 

[brianmoooore]

Tails would be in trunking if I couldn't get them into safe zones. I don't compromise regulations for aesthetics. If the customer complains, tell them to take it up with the architect who did the sloppy design in the first place.

 

[nicebutdim]

Who designs these things? Is it beyond the wit of the architect to place the incoming supply directly outside the proposed position of the CU.

I don't disagree, but these are common types of homes. I assume developers simply pay for use of plans drawn up by someone who knows little about acceptable cable routes. To be fair, the house styles I have in mind are well designed to make the most of a limited amount of space.

Still, there's nothing to stop developers installing a duct with draw string - they probably haven't thought to do so or simply don't care.

 

[brianmoooore]

Odd, when they installed my smart meter and upgraded my cutout to 100A they also ran a new set of 25mm tails to the CU.

I would have expected the meter supplier to request that you provide the upgraded tails to the meter cabinet before they uprated the cutout. That's what I've always done - new tails to the meter cabinet, connected with Henleys to the old tails in the cabinet (along with a note not to walk off with my Henleys.)

 

[nicebutdim]

Tails would be in trunking if I couldn't get them into safe zones. I don't compromise regulations for aesthetics. If the customer complains, tell them to take it up with the architect who did the sloppy design in the first place.

If more sparks adopted this approach things might be different, but there'll always be someone prepared to take work and not raise a fuss.

 

[brianmoooore]

Still, there's nothing to stop developers installing a duct with draw string - they probably haven't thought to do so or simply don't care.

That's the point! As long as we don't push back, and create waves, they will continue to do so.

 

[brianmoooore]

If we go with ducting along the cavities, there's still the problem of serious derating of the tails if cavity insulation is installed.