Domestic RHI - What's covered?

[Worcester]

Thought I'd post here before I threw it into the public forum

We've got three interesting large Solar thermal projects to do and two Biomass projects. (one is both..) all include DHW

One solar thermal and the Biomass system both have to include for the heating of an fully enclosed indoor swimming pool. Currently both pools are heated by oil.

One is going to use both a combined large solar array and a large biomass boiler to heat the home and pool. (why run biomass in the summer...)

The other solar thermal the customer wants to put a large array in to heat the house. (via a thermal store)

(There are good reasons for these final conclusions and we have considered all options in all cases including heat pumps and wind)

The question is: Will the entire systems be eligible for RHI , or will we have to do some complex metering just for the house usage?

Commercial pools are eligible for RHI if indoors...

From the Non-Domestic RHI:
"In order for an installation to be eligible for the RHI, the heat load it is being used to meet must be an economically justifiable heating requirement, i.e. a heat load that would otherwise be met by an alternative form of heating."

"To be eligible for RHI support, heat must be used for eligible purposes within a building. For example, renewable heat generated to meet the heat loads described below would not be eligible for the RHI: Heating of external surfaces to prevent frost or cold temperatures61; Underground heating of open external spaces, e.g. recreational facility; Heating of open air or partially enclosed swimming pools."


There appears to be little guidance YET for the application of the Domestic RHI - perhaps I've missed it? (TedM may know )

i.e
1) Is Space heating by Solar Thermal eligible for RHI?
2) Is heating a domestic indoor swimming pool eligible for RHI?

To make life more complicated the large solar array will be backed up by oil boiler for deep winter.

Life is simple

 

[Worcester]

Supplementary question:
Will an existing mains gas installation (old decrepit boiler that has to be replaced in the next 6 months) be elegible for RHI if converted to Biomass?

 

[Worcester]

OK, I've just gone through the RHI policy document in detail https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/212089/Domestic_RHI_policy_statement.pdf and there seems to be a big flaw in it - it seems to completely ignore the use of thermal stores using multiple heating sources, and also assumes that heating and DHW are separate installations....

for example: the phrase keeps cropping up :
"Provided the space heating system isn’t bivalent" - with a thermal store it inherently is
and
"Only domestic hot water generated by solar thermal systems will be eligible" If you feed a thermal store with Solar Thermal, you can't guarantee where that heat will be used...


(So you can heat a pool in summer by biomass and get repaid, but you can't heat it by solar thermal? )

 

[TedM]

OFGEM haven't issued any detailed guidance on domestic RHI yet.

You've hit the grey area 'jackpot' of domestic RHI with indoor pools and space heating from solar thermal. As you found, outdoor pools are expressly excluded but indoor pools are not expressly included. From memory all reference in the existing DECC docs to solar thermal is in terms of the % of the DHW demand it can meet with the assumption that this cannot exceed 100%.

You could try the EST on Monday but I doubt they would actually know. For solar thermal have a close look at the SAP and MCS standards and see if there are any loop-holes.

 

[The Solar King]

A couple of observations.

Firstly on swimming pools. You often use far more energy on de-humidification and space heating of the pool room than you do heating the water. We walked away from one job where a pool was to be enclosed in what was basically a victorian style conservatory. Energy needed to heat the pool was just 7% of total. A combined unit was going to be used for all three functions powered by a GSHP. This in itself was problematic as it needed a double size ground loop as there would be insufficient recovery in the summer months. The savings through adding ST were negligible. I had visions of the very rich Aberdonian owner going absolutely mental when he saw the interior of his beautiful conservatory bedecked with loads of pipework to deal with de-humidification etc. I was pretty sure it was all going to end in very expensive tears.

Using ST for space heating has always looked attractive if you are far enough south to get sufficient gain in the back quarters of the year. Only problem comes is in the summer. To do this you need a system that will vastly over produce due to lack of demand for space heating. This means one hell of a lot of storage to cope or panels stagnating excessively with all the associated problems of accelerated fluid degradation. You could always have an external heat sink to try and disipate the heat. Love to know how you plan to deal with this.

On the question of mains gas and biomass. As I understand all technologies other than ST will only qualify in off grid areas.

 

[Worcester]

The off gas grid was also my initial thoughts however the new policy document does open it up, where it specifically states:
"The domestic RHI is a financial support scheme for renewable heat, targeted at, but not limited to, off gas grid households"
and:

Who is eligible?
12. The domestic RHI scheme will give financial support for an eligible renewable heating system that heats a single domestic property in Great Britain. The property can be on or off the gas grid. Payments will go to the owner of the heating system.

Also this is a big one that most people will miss: The RH Premium payment will be clawed back !!!!!

Receiving payments
52. Participants will receive RHI payments quarterly in arrears for seven years. Tariffs will change annually in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI). Increases or decreases will take effect in the first payment period following 1 April each year, in line with RPI changes in the prior financial year (1st April – 31st March).
53. If the applicant has previously received public funding for the heating system, such as the Renewable Heat Premium Payment, this must be declared as part of the application process. This will then be deducted from RHI payments under the scheme. Initially, a deduction equal to one twenty-eighth of the value of the prior public funding received will be made from each quarterly payment. However, where tariffs are altered in line with RPI, the quarterly deduction will also change by the same proportion, so that the overall value of the deduction remains constant.
54. We also intend to take into account other forms of subsidy – for example, support from energy companies. In some cases, where subsidy has been provided in the past, RHI payments may be reduced or these installations may be ineligible. This is aimed at ensuring applicants do not receive a double subsidy to install renewable heat. We will confirm details closer to the launch of the scheme.

He giveth with one hand an taketh with the other !

 

[TedM]

DECC have changed their original stance on the off gas grid position, presumably as a result of the poor take-up of commercial RHI. (Only 1,754 installs had been accredited at the end of June 2013.)

The other major point worth noting is that legacy systems (installed from 15th July 2009) will be subject to a delayed registration schedule once the domestic RHI starts next spring. This is to avoid a huge one-off hit of all the legacy systems trying to register at the same time. DECC haven't indicated yet what that schedule might be but it could be quite a while before people actually start to receive their cash.

 

[Gavin A]

there are so many flaws in that document and the methodology outlined, I'd be tearing my hair out if I could be bothered to try to care about it.

As it is, I'd advise everyone to tread very carefully with it, and expect the scheme to rapidly run out of money probably in year 2, then end up having drastic revisions after the results of the monitored systems come back and show them the severe flaws in their methodology.

One big bug bear of mine is paying for heat pumps to replace condensing gas boilers on the gas grid, then calling the heat generated above the electrical input renewable - it doesn't become any lower carbon / more renewable than a condensing gas boiler until it get's to around 2.5 COP due to the carbon intensity of the grid vs the carbon intensity of gas used directly for heating. They even acknowledge this to an extent in the document, citing the EU ruling that it's not renewable if it's less than 2.5 average COP, but they're paying RHI based on every kWh above that consumed from the electric grid.

This logic made sense when replacing resistive electric heating, and isn't too bad replacing oil, but it makes no sense at all now they've decided to extend it to on gas grid houses as well.

 

[Worcester]

Rather than start a new thread, I'd thought Id' update this one:

I had about half an hour discussion 1-1 today with one of DECC's top RHI guys and one of Ofgem's key RHI guys, key points:

1) The kWh figure used isn't going to change, they are fully aware of the discrepancy, and whatever the actual / true figure is, the will use the EPC kWh as it is replicable by any assessor. (i.e simple...)
2) The Domestic RHI WILL start in spring 2014, that's a directive from Barking (There's an election in 2015...)
3) there will be a significant number of changes between now and the formal launch, they want to avoid and changes after it's launch so are working hard to get it right (for them...), get it wrong and it will cost votes in 2015.
4) Solar Thermal for heating and swimming pools - this was clearly overlooked and is being looked at.
5) They want to protect the consumer from badly designed and badly installed systems.
6) The Domestic RHI application process will be simple, online and automated - no manual sending in of forms for them to be lost, so authorisation will be automated.
7) The heat pump SPF, although they won't admit it, they fully understand that a well designed, well specified, well installed system will significantly outperform one that simply meets the specifications.
a) They consider that prudent purchasing by the customer, and all benefit to him.
b) They missed the point that those aren't the customers that need protecting, - it's the ones that get flogged minimum spec systems at premium prices!
8) The RHI is NOT designed to get people to convert to renewables, the purpose is to OFFSET some of the capital expenditure when a boiler HAS to be replaced because it's broken, and therefore to consider a green option. - Roll on BG et al selling everything under the sun to Mrs Bloggins when her boiler breaks down and all done under The Green Deal and RHI...
9) The Green Deal and the RHI are inseperable - (hence the need for the GDAR and then the ability to talk about loss of success later - undoubtedly double counting Green Deal and RHI installations.)

Other points of note, all the quality AS Heat Pump providers bar none are lobbying DECC to get a proper SPF figure, based on actual certified results, used for the RHI calculations, - they also state that there is almost no large retrofit market for ASHP's based on the current RHI proposal.

Ofgem say that their role is purely to administer the policy the DECC hands down to them, and I got the definite impression that any ambiguities would be cleared up / settled by DECC, for Ofgem to administer. They made it absolutely clear that they got caught out with a large number of fraudulent Solar PV FiT claims, and that this wont happen under the RHI, hence why Ofgem is managing it. (DECC really didn't like the East West systems that were specified as 4kW based on the inverter output.)

So - they want it to be seen as a success, and if that means ASHP's don't stack up, then that's the way it is. A hidden way of saying we've included them but don't really want them - hence the tariff level. As for the other technologies, they are adamant that this should not be an investment opportunity, merely to make a renewable decision slightly easier for / give 'Green' option to people when there boiler needs replacement. - i.e. they are not looking to stimulate a wholesale move to renewables.


So hopefully that gives a bit of clarity - the RHI is simply that, an INCENTIVE to consider renewables when your boiler needs replacement

 

[Gavin A]

So - they want it to be seen as a success, and if that means ASHP's don't stack up, then that's the way it is. A hidden way of saying we've included them but don't really want them - hence the tariff level. As for the other technologies, they are adamant that this should not be an investment opportunity, merely to make a renewable decision slightly easier for / give 'Green' option to people when there boiler needs replacement. - i.e. they are not looking to stimulate a wholesale move to renewables.


So hopefully that gives a bit of clarity - the RHI is simply that, an INCENTIVE to consider renewables when your boiler needs replacement

well I agree with them on that much at least.

Personally I don't see there should be any funding at all for heat pumps up to an average COP of 2.5 for houses on the gas grid, as up to that point they're in no way better than a condensing gas boiler. I know heat pumps averaging under 2.5 aren't eligible, but why should the payments for those that are start for every kWh of heat generated over the level of electrical input.

I hope they're right about the figures not stacking up so no big rush, but suspect that the sales companies will find a way of bulls***ting customers into it, and the budget will get blown for bugger all net carbon benefit.