down lighters

[Welshsparky]

Whats the crack with non fire rated down lighters? do i have to insist they are changed for fire rated or hoods added or is it purely just a recommendation?

 

[telectrix]

nope, it mentions 1st floor, garage, basement, and ceiling below roof ( which in a 2 storey house, is the 1st floor ) .

 

[Litttle Shonet]

Can't remember where in regs, but I saw in it, that if floor above was occupied then fire rated ones must be used. I interpreted this as your own bedrooms as well as multiple occupancy dwellings

 

[mickys86]

To be quite honest, fire rated down lighters are so cheap now i fit them as standard, don't care what the Regs are.

Second that

 

[micknew]

Fight!

 

[Moses]

Two Storey
House
Ceiling below roof None C2, L1, and P1
First floor 30 minutes * B3, E2, L1, and
P1



First "floor" is = Ground floor ceiling
Ceiling below roof = First floor ceiling

What do you think?

 

[telectrix]

the document to prove or disprove the argument is the building regs. hot some half-arsed local council drivel dreamed up by a team of suits that can't even organise bin collections or fill in potholes.. if i'm wrong, somebody show me the reg. in the official building regs.

 

[Moses]

the document to prove or disprove the argument is the building regs. hot some half-arsed local council drivel dreamed up by a team of suits that can't even organise bin collections or fill in potholes.. if i'm wrong, somebody show me the reg. in the official building regs.

agreed























































But I will still recommend to install FR downlighters if there is occupied space above.

 

[Richard Burns]

The document from Charnwood borough Council is advisory and is not specifying that the ceilings in dwellings are fire compartments, only that they have fire resistance of 30 minutes. It has been demonstrated that downlights do not affect the fire resistance of 30 min ceilings even if they do not have fire hoods.

In Part B of the building regs the only sealing of penetrations mentioned are for fire compartments (i.e. between different dwellings or between a dwelling and attached garage below). However it does say that consideration should be given to downlight installation and protection may be necessary.

The upshot is that you do not need to fit fire rated downlights but it is probably worth doing if you can.

 

[micknew]

the document to prove or disprove the argument is the building regs. hot some half-arsed local council drivel dreamed up by a team of suits that can't even organise bin collections or fill in potholes.. if i'm wrong, somebody show me the reg. in the official building regs.

try B3(1)

 

[1shortcircuit]

I always fit fire rated because as mentioned there are some competitively priced units available and besides, it stops the crap from above dropping into the lamp and possibly burning too ie dumb insects.

 

[joe j]

I always fit fire rated because as mentioned there are some competitively priced units available and besides, it stops the crap from above dropping into the lamp and possibly burning too ie dumb insects.

Agree with this. Also plasterboard is fire rated whether it's a barrier or not so by fitting fire rated you are preserving this

 

[joe j]

Ditto with Tel, not a fire barrier, fore rated downlights not required.
Fire will much more easily go up the stairs!

Unless it starts in the fitting

 

[redface]

i agree with tel if there is a room above then fire rated i have spoke to niceic about this many years ago and it seems logical to 12.5 plasterboard has 30 mins fire rating but not if there are holes in it

 

[Richard Burns]

Whilst I agree that with the prevalence and cheapness of fire rated down lights there is rarely any reason not to fit them, the issue of whether you have to fit them is reasonably clear cut.
There is a question on the ECA website FAQ about this issue and this is the text of the question and answer that provides further clarity.

[h=2]Do I need to install fire hoods/fire rated downlighters in every situation?[/h]It really depends on whether the ceiling forms part of a fire compartment, its type of construction, its load-bearing capacity or if it has been specified by the client/contract.
Generally speaking, a dwelling is considered to be a single compartment with regards to fire (Part B of the Building Regulations) unless it has an integral garage or has a protected stairway leading to a third floor. In the case of 3-storey dwellings, it is advisable to fit fire protection to downlighters installed in intermediate floors, especially where the integrity of flooring above has been compromised (e.g. gaps between floor boards, etc.).
Where recessed downlighters are installed in ceilings that are not fire compartments such as the intermediate floors of 2-storey dwellings, the ceiling needs to have a minimum fire rating of 30 minutes.
Research was commissioned in 1996 to look into the effect on the fire resistance of plasterboard ceilings with conventional rectangular joists having recessed downlighters installed (with no boxing in or fire hoods). The results of the tests were published in the July 1996 edition of Building Control Magazine. These results confirmed that the installation of downlighters, without being boxed in and with no fire hoods in plasterboard/timber joist ceilings, have little significant effect on fire resistance ratings up to 30 minutes. It must be inferred from these tests, therefore, that with ceilings of robust type construction (12.7mm plasterboard with conventional rectangular timber joists at not more than 450 mm centres and the flooring is at least 18mm thick with no gaps), it is not necessary to 'box in' downlighters or to use fire hoods for the purpose of restoring the fire resistance capability of ceilings that do not form part of fire compartment construction.

 

[redface]

Wow you know it all good man