down lights

[colour]

Hi please could you advise, we are renovating a property, the client has asked us to fit to bathroom ceiling 4 x Firestop IP20 down lights mains connected, with 35v bulbs. the loft is fully boarded and no acces from above ceiling, so after drilling the ceiling we find that between plaster board and woodchip floor above there is a gap of 100mm. the fittings have a casing that is aprox 85mm. would this be to close for there to be a fire hazzad there is a good 4inch space aroung proposed fitting. Also the lights are aprox 2.5 mtrs away from any water taps. they will be run on a dimmer switch from ouside in hallway, connected by 1m calble. please advise..Thanks

 

[Sparky Ninja]

The fittings will have a spacing mentioned in their data (typically 40-50mm) this should be followed.

 

[telectrix]

any in zone 1? assume you mean 35watt each, not volts. due to the limited space above, i would be inclined to fit cfl or LED so as to eliminate the heat problem. it's not only fire, but overheating of the fittings causing breakdown of cable and terminations to consider

 

[amberleaf]

Widdler . Sir I don’t .what to stand on anybody Toes Here . I was doing research on Downlight.s & Fire Hoods . Amber . May I have Permission to Download Please . it my be Useful to some Member’s . Thank You

 

[colour]

sorry 35watt none in zone 1. could you recomend one that would be a near match to the size of the ip20 and how much it will cost . do they need a tranformer..Thanks

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Widdler . Sir I don’t .what to stand on anybody Toes Here . I was doing research on Downlight.s & Fire Hoods . Amber . May I have Permission to Download Please . it my be Useful to some Member’s . Thank You

....huh?

 

[telectrix]

are the fittings GU10? if so cfl or led lamps fit straight in no tranny. ( as long as you get GU10 base lamps). make sure you get lamps with sufficient output. e.g . if led you need 5watt or more to get a decent light.

 

[amberleaf]

Sorry about that Widdler . I don’t go into the Main Forum a lot . 2 years on my Own . am being Polite thank you

Fire Hood’s . for Down-Light’s

Depends upon the Design & Construction of the Building or the Design of the Downlight.s
Reason (i) it’s possible the Ceiling in which the Downlight.s are mounted is Not a Fire Barrier .
Reason (ii) Some Design’s do not need Fire hood’s because they are Designed to Maintain the Fire Barrier without the need for a Hood . **

Fire hood’s
Some local Authority Insists on Fire Hood’s .
Some Do Not . You need to Contact your Local Authority for Advice .

Firstly . Ceiling’s provide an Important Barrier that helps to prevent the spread of Fire & Noise between the floor’s of a Building . of a Building . Installing Recessed Downlight.s Puncture this Barrier & can Reduce the Effectiveness of this Safety Barrier .

Rating . 30 or 60 or 90 minute Fire Rating .

Regulation’s . Example .
You may be having a new Kitchen Installed . This could mean ???

You may have to meet Part B ( Fire Safety )
You may have to meet Part L ( Energy & Efficiency )
You may have to meet Part P ( Electrical Safety ) of the Building Regulation’s . ( Installation Requirement’s )

Part B ( Fire Safety ) if the Integrity of the ( Fire Barrier i.e. ) a Ceiling . is Compromised by the Installation of a Light Fitting . such as a recessed Downlight . & there is a Living Space on the Floor directly above . the ( Fire must be Maintained )

The can be Achieved by Either using a ( Fire Rated Light Fitting ) which reacts in the Event of a ( Fire Seal the Break in the Fire Barrier ) or by Using a Fire Hood in Conjunction with a Standard Light Fitting . The Fire Hood is Normally placed on the rear of the Fitting in the Cavity Void .

All Electrical Work must conform to BS-7671:2008 . IEE Wiring Regulation’s & Part P of the Building Regulation’s

Bathroom’s are divided into 4 Zone’s ( in Theory ) Zone’s . 0 . 1 . 2 . & Outside . 17th Edition . these must be Protected by RCD operating at 30mA .

Note : When laying Cable’s . always leave an Extra Length for any last minute Adjustment’s . Let face it !! it is Easier to Reduce the Length than it is to Add .
Testing . that is a Other matter .

( Fire : )
Building Regulation’s Approved Document ( B ) states if a Fire Separating Element is to be Effective . then every Joint or Imperfection of Fit . or Opening to Allow Services to pass through the Element . should be Adequately Protected by Sealing or Fire Stopping so that the Fire Résistance of the Element is Not Impaired .

** What Going for it !! Fire Rated Luminaries . can be Inserted into the Ceiling from below Quickly & Easily . just like Standard Downlight.s .

 

[colour]

Thank you telectrix, are you saying that I can fit the IP20 mains unit I have and just insert 5watt bulbs. to aviod excessive heat or buy a whole new unit. The ip20 take GU10 bulbs max 50 watts.

 

[Short Circuit]

Thank you telectrix, are you saying that I can fit the IP20 mains unit I have and just insert 5watt bulbs. to aviod excessive heat or buy a whole new unit. The ip20 take GU10 bulbs max 50 watts.

colour
You can get 230volt LED GU10 lamps that are direct replacement for the 'normal' GU10 lamps - no need to change the lights at all - they will fit straight in - i have been using 4w Kosnic ones, which are bright enough but cost around 12 squid ! So not a cheap option, but safe! Sell them to your customer on the basis of the safety and that they are worth the extra money as they last 10 times longer and use less energy - ie 4w, as opposed to 35!

 

[colour]

Thank you. does this mean that the 15mm gap between the wood floor and light casing is no longer a problem due to heat with the 4w led. also are they dimmable. do they produce any heat to worry about. Thanks

 

[Sparky Ninja]

what happens when the client replaces them for ordinary GU10's?

 

[amberleaf]

Use of Equipment . IP Rating is a Factor .

Any electrical item approved for use in a “ Zone “ may be used in another Zone with a Higher number . but Not in a lower Number .

Zone 0 .
Requires electrical products to Low-Voltage [ max 12 volts ] & be IPX7 … the mechanical protection is unimportant .
Zone 1 .
Requires electrical products to be IPX4 or better . or SELV with the Transformer Located beyond Zone 2 .
Zone 2 .
Requires electrical products to be IPX4 or better . or SELV with the Transformer Located beyond Zone 2 .
Beyond Zone 2 .
When the size of Bathroom extends beyond zone 2 . portable equipment is allowed . however they should be positioned such that their flex does not enable them to be used in zone 2 .

( the Two most IP Rating used IPX2 – IPX4 . in the Regulation’s )

 

[amberleaf]

As well as IP numbers . items may be Classed as PELV – SELV .

- Protective Extra low Voltage : PELV . as the name suggests . the item used Low Voltage but it is ( Connected to Earth )
- Separated Extra Low Voltage : SELV a Low Voltage System but the Output is Isolated from the Input .

Saver Power Points are not IP Rated . but .if they Comply with BS-EN 60742 . Chapter 2 . Section 1 . they can be located in zone 2 . or Beyond Providing they are Unlikely be the subject of Direct Spray from any Shower .

 

[amberleaf]

Bathrooms are Zoned according to Electrical Safety measures . the lighting Zones define what Type of lighting can be in an Area .
According to how Dangerous Lighting could be there ( Zone 1 . is the Area above the Bath ) & it is One of the most Dangerous Lighting Zones .

Purpose . The Zones in a Bathroom are for the purpose of Installing Electrical Equipment . ( The Zones are based on the Risk of Electrical Shock ) & according to a products IP Rating .