Driveway (walk over) Lighting - HOW TO?

[Deleted member 113322]

As part of a current project I am looking to install uplights in the ground at the end of the drive which I believe are also known as Drive over lights or Walk over lights. S
crewfix and Toolstation sell them and one I have purchased to look at is from Screwfix (5548T) which is a GU10 Enlite fitting.


Now this fitting has a flex coming out of it with about half a metre on it which isnt going to go far. In fact it isnt going to allow me to wire from one light to another.

I have read online there are Gel based junction boxes to water proof this and also a mix of stories as to whether or not I have to use armoured cable or not.

Can any of you guys give any advice on how i can go about putting 3-4 uplights in at the end of the drive. the whole drive will be tarmac and block paved border so there will be no flower beds, etc.. to hide any junction boxes in there?

Some other thoughts:

1. Do I have to work with armoured cable? If not whats the alternative?
2. Whats the depths I have to put it in at when they dig the drive up?
3. Whats the rules on the junction boxes in the drive?
4. what tricks/tips on what i can use to over come regulation problems, etc..)



(FYI.... I have rewired many houses but never done any outside work before)

 

[Charlie_]

Cost over £200?
Do you mean all in, materials & labour?
If you go for 240 fittings then you need to be wiring in swa..

 

[Deleted member 113322]

Materials only as I will do the labour of laying the cables whilst the driveway people are in digging up.

There's a bit of mix in stories here.... Some are saying SWA is needed and some arn't for 240v under the drive?

I don't really want to work with SWA as I have just ripped some old stuff out for the garden shed and its a pain to work with because it's so stiff.

I am pretty sure I have watched various Youtube videos of people putting plug sockets out the in the garden and in flower beds and on walls etc... that were all done in flex in conduit and not SWA cable.

I'm a little confused as to what is right and what is wrong?

 

[PEG]

I would say,if eyebrows are going up at £200 for bits...the customers reach has exceeded their grasp...

To do this type of job,with any longevity built in,will require buying the correct gear...and that costs,what it costs

 

[Deleted member 113322]

PEG.... I agree it costs what it costs and that's why i am currently doing the exercise of going through the parts that will make up this system so i can price it up. Once its finally priced up Ill have the knowledge of how to do it and how much it will cost and I can make the decision at that point If I go ahead and install on this project. If it doesn't go ahead on this project due to cost then I will have these figures for the next project where i can budget it in.

Based on the 230v fittings at screwfix and toolstation the £200 is achievable I would say, however £90 per light that then requires a driver, etc.. as well would not be so.


Like I said.... I am looking for you guys to make product suggestions. No one seems to be telling me what can and can't be done in respect of the cabling as I do not want to use SWA as its to hard to work with.

 

[Charlie_]

The problem I see is that I find swa one of the easiest cables to work with and also the most suitable for this job..
Especially if you’re going down the mains voltage route..
Based on the description of the job; I would wire it in swa to an inspection pit and then joint out of there to each fitting. Using say kopex to go from the pit to each burial sleeve.. the kopex can be glanded to the bottom of the sleeve..

 

[Octopus]

OP - is this your house or for a client?

 

[mattg4321]

Doesn't like working with SWA as it's 'too stiff'
Wants to fit the cheapest materials possible
Shopping in Toolstation/Screwfix for bits that most would never source from there
Wants forum to spell out regulations for him re cable choice

Clearly a DIYer, clearly clueless. OP you've received some great advice here, but appear determined to ignore it.

I'd be interested to know 1. Is this for your house 2. What qualifications do you have and 3. Do you intend to notify this work?

 

[Deleted member 113322]

Doesn't like working with SWA as it's 'too stiff'
Wants to fit the cheapest materials possible
Shopping in Toolstation/Screwfix for bits that most would never source from there
Wants forum to spell out regulations for him re cable choice

Clearly a DIYer, clearly clueless. OP you've received some great advice here, but appear determined to ignore it.

I'd be interested to know 1. Is this for your house 2. What qualifications do you have and 3. Do you intend to notify this work?

Ahhh MattG Your post has come alot later on in this forum post than I first expected it would, but not to worry I have been waiting for it so I'm more than happy to provide you a detailed response than dismiss your value adding post!?!


1. The property is one of my properties which I will sell. I think it would be a nice touch to have up-lighters in the drive but also its an idea i'd like to have a go at and learn from for the future. I'm sure mistakes will be made and that my friend is sometimes how we learn in life.
Now with this being a "nice idea" and a "Would like" to the project it is not a necessity. I therefore want to do it for the lowest cost possible so I am going through the motions to understand the cheapest way to set it up without huge costs AND for it to be correct, safe and in line with the regs, etc... Once I have the multiple methods of set up then I can make an informed choice of whether I do it or not do it. Does that make sense to you Matt?


2. I want to state that I have wired all of my properties internally in past and present and they have all been to a high standard and to regulation as I check at each stage I am doing things correctly. In addition yes I do notify all my works and have certificates for all work carried out. What you must understand here is that outside electrics is not something I have done before and we all have to start someone Matt and this is why I am asking for multiple methods to get this installed that is easy, cheap and to regulation. So yes perhaps I can be named as "clueless" with regards to outside lighting but that why I am here asking. Isn't this the whole point of the website Matt? .....So what brings you here?

3. Qualifications??? Matt, I see no relevance to the questions I ask about driveway light setup. I'm an individual that is hands on and wants to learn the correct way of doing everything I do whether thats using a computer, driving a car or wiring some lights up.


4. Matt there has been some helpful advice so far but unfortunately it is incomplete and that's why some questions are repeated and asking for further suggestions. It's not the case of ignoring anyone comments. I have gathered the useful information posted but unfortunately there is still big holes in the information as many questions are unanswered so I cannot move forward with incomplete answers sadly.


5. Finally SWA... Perhaps my statement of SWA being difficult to work with is perhaps wrong. My only experience with it was removing it from a property however it was a much thicker cable than what will be required for this job. Perhaps if i buy the 1.5mm 3 core SWA cable it may not be as bad to work with as I think it is. I'm just seeing if there is an alternative I could use to make my life easier but would still satisfy regs. so far no one is really saying clearly other than down the low voltage route which seems to bump prices up alot as the light fittings are much more expensive.


6. What is wrong with Screwfix and Toolstation? They are 2 suppliers local and available everywhere. They provide fairly good pricing on most things and you know where you stand with them. They do not pull prices out of the air like most trade building suppliers. So why wouldn't I use them Matt? If they sell the junction box I need or the Wago connectors or the Prysmian twin and earth i want and have it in stock then I will buy it. If they don't stock it i go elsewhere. simple! Perhaps your clueless as to what Screwfix and Toolstation sell?

 

[Deleted member 113322]

Moving on from Mattg and his post.....


Ive taken the info so far and also had a conversation with a supplier this morning. Interestingly they advised that GU10 230v are best as you will have less problems when the fitting/bulb goes where as low voltage with LED integrated could be a problem when the LED's go and you need to replace them. Obviously there is pro's and con's to everything.


This is what I have come up with as I do not have sufficient information from here as yet:

1. At each point where each light will sit I will install 110mm Soil pipe vertically in the ground which would be no less than about 300mm long where the cables would run into and would be filled up with gravel that acts as a soakaway.

2. I can run a 1.5mm SWA cable from the house to the end of the drive to light 1 and an SWA between light 1 and 2 and 1 and 3. It appears this probably doesn't needs to be at a certain depth as no one has come up with one so I can put it in with the bases before tarmac. Also I don't think it needs to be in any kopex either as its armoured. Under light 1 I could have a 4 way connector which goes in a jelly type junction box. Power in and power out to each light.

3. Then the 0.5 metre flex that comes out of each fitting can then be connected to the armoured cable using a raytech ip68 jelly filled box.

Additional measures can be that i put extra silicone on the light fittings to make sure they are going to be protected from water.


I could also move the junction box from under light 1 to perhaps a junction box on the side fence or perhaps in a soil flower bed near by if I change the drive plan OR look for some kind of hatch that can be fitted in the tarmac so i can open it up and access it.



Let me know your thoughts guys? Perhaps Correct me where I am wrong. Perhaps even suggest a better and more simple way. Feel free to draw it out for me and even suggest a light fitting at the cheaper end that allows loop in and out? I'm open to all ideas. Links and product names are super helpful for lights fittings, junction boxes etc... and as always your help is much appreciated so thanks!!!

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

Ahhh MattG Your post has come alot later on in this forum post than I first expected it would, but not to worry I have been waiting for it so I'm more than happy to provide you a detailed response than dismiss your value adding post!?!


1. The property is one of my properties which I will sell. I think it would be a nice touch to have up-lighters in the drive but also its an idea i'd like to have a go at and learn from for the future. I'm sure mistakes will be made and that my friend is sometimes how we learn in life.
Now with this being a "nice idea" and a "Would like" to the project it is not a necessity. I therefore want to do it for the lowest cost possible so I am going through the motions to understand the cheapest way to set it up without huge costs AND for it to be correct, safe and in line with the regs, etc... Once I have the multiple methods of set up then I can make an informed choice of whether I do it or not do it. Does that make sense to you Matt?


2. I want to state that I have wired all of my properties internally in past and present and they have all been to a high standard and to regulation as I check at each stage I am doing things correctly. In addition yes I do notify all my works and have certificates for all work carried out. What you must understand here is that outside electrics is not something I have done before and we all have to start someone Matt and this is why I am asking for multiple methods to get this installed that is easy, cheap and to regulation. So yes perhaps I can be named as "clueless" with regards to outside lighting but that why I am here asking. Isn't this the whole point of the website Matt? .....So what brings you here?

3. Qualifications??? Matt, I see no relevance to the questions I ask about driveway light setup. I'm an individual that is hands on and wants to learn the correct way of doing everything I do whether thats using a computer, driving a car or wiring some lights up.


4. Matt there has been some helpful advice so far but unfortunately it is incomplete and that's why some questions are repeated and asking for further suggestions. It's not the case of ignoring anyone comments. I have gathered the useful information posted but unfortunately there is still big holes in the information as many questions are unanswered so I cannot move forward with incomplete answers sadly.


5. Finally SWA... Perhaps my statement of SWA being difficult to work with is perhaps wrong. My only experience with it was removing it from a property however it was a much thicker cable than what will be required for this job. Perhaps if i buy the 1.5mm 3 core SWA cable it may not be as bad to work with as I think it is. I'm just seeing if there is an alternative I could use to make my life easier but would still satisfy regs. so far no one is really saying clearly other than down the low voltage route which seems to bump prices up alot as the light fittings are much more expensive.


6. What is wrong with Screwfix and Toolstation? They are 2 suppliers local and available everywhere. They provide fairly good pricing on most things and you know where you stand with them. They do not pull prices out of the air like most trade building suppliers. So why wouldn't I use them Matt? If they sell the junction box I need or the Wago connectors or the Prysmian twin and earth i want and have it in stock then I will buy it. If they don't stock it i go elsewhere. simple! Perhaps your clueless as to what Screwfix and Toolstation sell?

^^^^^ the reason why the forum has a dumb rating?

 

[Octopus]

^^^^^ the reason why the forum has a dumb rating?

The only reason the dumb button exists is because the owner and staff are too d... to realise it’s so last century.

The optimistic button for the op would suffice ...

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

The only reason the dumb button exists is because the owner and staff are too d... to realise it’s so last century.

The optimistic button for the op would suffice ...

Thankfully I used the optimistic button and not the dumb...

 

[Pete999]

Thanks for your responses above guys. Generally I have gotten the following information which you all seem to generally agree on:

1. Use low voltage to eradicate problems as mains voltage lighting is more likely to trip out and get water problems.

2. Soak Away installed underneath using 110mm soil pipe to help reduce water into the lights.

3. Using Ho7 Cable and NOT armoured.

4. Rip the cable out of the existing fitting and replace it. Well I can i do that but it will be one cable only running back to a junction box as there is no room for looping the lights. Plus this fitting is Gu10 mains so if i refer to point 1 you are mostly advising me not to use this type of fitting


QUESTIONS

a. Has anyone got and suggestions on what Walk over lights to use that are similar size to GU10? Perhaps a make/model / link?

b) using ho7 cable under my drive - What depth minimum should it be run or will this become irrelevant with low voltage? Does it need to be in ducting?



Please remember the driveway guys are going to be looking at me and i have to have a full plan of implementation so it can be installed correctly.

230 Volts AC is Low voltage

 

[mattg4321]

Best of luck with this OP.

The forum doesn't allow step by step guides to doing work that are outside of a persons competency.

This is probably why you are not receiving information that we would expect to be obvious to a competent and qualified person.