e.c.r

[goldie]

Block of apartments. All ccts protected by m.c.bs only.
Code 4 for all ccts not protected by rcd other than socket ccts. No probs.
What I am wondering is code 2 for non rcd sockets ground floor apartment's only or all apartments ground floor and above.
Also landlord's sockets I imagine could only be in use for cleaners only (not labeled though and anyone could use them) so do we think this also would require rcd protection?

 

[markc123]

Isit the old 3036 MCB's ?

You can't code 2 something that once complied if everything tests out okay.

 

[goldie]

No they are 60898.
We test to current standards. This is s misconception about testing to when it was installed.
e.g. I wouldnt issue a 17th ed cert to something that complied to regs in the 50s where unearthed lightinng ccts are in use with conductive exposed parts

 

[james_t87]

No such thing as a code 4

 

[goldie]

Quite right james. Code 3 my mistake.

 

[markc123]

No they are 60898.
We test to current standards. This is s misconception about testing to when it was installed.
e.g. I wouldnt issue a 17th ed cert to something that complied to regs in the 50s where unearthed lightinng ccts are in use with conductive exposed parts

As mentioned in a thread yesterday, theres nothing actually wrong with that according to ESC. Just need notify the customer and advise on class 2 fittings.

What would you do then if you were doing a EICR on an old install, refuse to pass it unless a re-wire took place?

Each to their own though buddy.

 

[richy3333]

Isit the old 3036 MCB's ?

You can't code 2 something that once complied if everything tests out okay.

Err, yes you can - http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/use...y/best_practice/BestPracticeGuide4-Locked.pdf

 

[goldie]

Have you read esc best practice guide on condition reports? It states that we are testing to current regs.
I just wanted other peoples input based on my question.

 

[markc123]

Yes i have read them...you are testing to make sure the installation is safe, and that is it.

 

[goldie]

Maybe u missed the part which states that we are testing to bs 7671 at the current time of the inspection being carried out regardless of the age of the installation.
I would just like some input if poss based on my question without big debates if anybody is up for it

 

[somersetsparks]

I believe the general guidance is code 3 for all indoor sockets not protected by 30ma RCD, code 2 for any outside ones.
I once used code 2 sockets 'likely to be used outside' but in this situation I would just reccommend RCD's but pass.

 

[markc123]

and you've maybe missed the next 3 lines that clearly states - but this does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

Regarding your OP, agree with the code3 for non-rcd protection on all circuits...the sockets, can only be determined on site...any sockets located in shower areas (near jet-wash) ect. ect. its you're own judgement. As far as im concered, its a non-compliance and would grade code wise on site. Could be a 1,2,3.

You can't take the ESC as gospel btw. It's hit and miss interms of interpretation - you as the installer are issuing the EICR to determine that the installation is fit for purpose and safe for continued use.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Block of apartments. All ccts protected by m.c.bs only.
Code 4 for all ccts not protected by rcd other than socket ccts. No probs.
What I am wondering is code 2 for non rcd sockets ground floor apartment's only or all apartments ground floor and above.
Also landlord's sockets I imagine could only be in use for cleaners only (not labeled though and anyone could use them) so do we think this also would require rcd protection?

OK then you want an answer without debate.

No such thing as a code 4.

You are assessing the condition of the electrical installation to confirm/or not that it is safe for continued use.
You are assessing the installation in relation to current standards.
If you look closely in the notes about code 3, you will see "Does not comply with current standards improvement recommended, compliance with current standards does not deem the installation to be unsafe" or words to that effect.
If the installation is compliant with earlier standards, and there is nothing else wrong with it, then you can only code anything code 3, so you are correct, code 3 non rcd protected circuits, but you cant code 2 downstairs sockets, unless a risk of danger exist, and it doesn't. We were never allowed to construct dangerous installations, even under the 1st edition, so if it was OK then, it is still OK now, we cant form opinions, we have to be factual, but you can give advice about improvement, because we have change and things get better, but you cant force it on people.

Yes RCD protection to landlord socket is RECOMMENDED code 3.

I have a Ford Cortina, it has no airbags, no side impact bars etc etc, but it isnt dangerous, and i am not rushing off to the garage for it all fitting, i can still drive it, and it works fine.

Cheers...........Howard

 

[goldie]

Thanks howard.
Agree with alot there but some not so convincing. I.e where would I stand in court if someone electrecuted themselves outside while mowing the lawn and I said all is ok but there was no rcd protection on socket cct.
Also things that complied earlier I dont agree all was safe at the time. I.e old toggle switches a 4 year old could unscrew and touch terminals or unearthed metalic switches.

 

[goldie]

Also code 2 is potentially dangerous. Not danger exists