Earth terminated outside.

[Buzz1980]

Hi All

Seen this on a few jobs now where they have on the Downlight fittings where the CPC is terminated outside the enclosure of the Downlight due to not having a earth connection inside. Does anyone know the reg that states that this is not permitted and earth connections should be inside enclosure. As on a EICR I would usually put down C3 but if you look at the Downlight connection side, the earth cable usually comes out the terminal enclosure single insulated and then connected on the side of the Downlight. Will look forward to responses cheers

 

[pirate]

I beg to differ...
and I am confident in that...
I am sorry that you can't see my viewpoint, but we'll leave it there.
Thank you for your input because it is always so measured and of value.
I will still loop a spare cpc at the fitting!

 

[pirate]

Oh...and I do have a defence!

 

[pirate]

but one which will remain in my domain...

 

[westward10]

Oh...and I do have a defence!

No you don't.

 

[pirate]

Oh well...I'll leave it there, thank you...
If you ever need a defence, let me know...
some of us have other expertise...

 

[westward10]

Oh well...I'll leave it there, thank you...
If you ever need a defence, let me know...
some of us have other expertise...

Well you must believe you have one so how do you justify the departure from BS7671, do you have a copy of BS7671.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I think we have to keep things in perspective here. We are talking about an inch or two of 1mm CPC, tucked away in a ceiling void, where the regulations technically require it to be 2.5mm. I would be very surprised to learn that anyone here seriously thinks that this is potentially dangerous.

 

[timhoward]

I think we have to keep things in perspective here. We are talking about an inch or two of 1mm CPC, tucked away in a ceiling void, where the regulations technically require it to be 2.5mm. I would be very surprised to learn that anyone here seriously thinks that this is potentially dangerous.

You've conjured up this image in my mind of 2 x 1mm T+Es entering a wago box, and a few inches of 6 mm T+E leaving the same box going out to the downlight with the 2.5mm CPC hanging out with sleeving and a wago on the end.....

I do tend to keep the Quikwire plug and sockets in stock as this guarantees a decent enclosed CPC connection, and then we are back to the same issue of what to do with the CPC in the flex if the fitting isn't designed to accept one. 2 core flex like a table lamp - maybe but then there is no CPC to the final point.

Maybe downlights will go out of fashion soon and retro-pendants will become the new must-have look.

 

[pirate]

No, I don't.. Why would I have a full copy? I use the Guides to BS7671 Good Practice and Inspection and Testing, because as everyone on this forum knows I am not claiming to be an electrician. I do domestic stuff, I do it well, I test it and install it to the best of my ability, and I seek asistance where required . I do small light industrial installations which are basically upscaled domestic, and when I see something I don't know I get someone else to do it, and learn from them. I have never claimed expertise in BS7671, and I suspect many on here haven't either...it's a reference.
However, I do have the ability to interpret stuff, and I do have the ability to carry out simple installations in a safe manner, so I am entitled to have an opinion on some practices where I have had actual experience.
I have on-hands experience of marine electrics, for 40 years, I have on-hands experience of DIY lighting and RFCs for 40 years, I have hands-on experience of domestic electrics and plumbing for 40 years, and I augment my experience with over 200 hours of CPD every year...
So, no...I don't have a full copy of BS7671...
(but I do have the latest 5th edition ISITEE! and I do test to it every time!)
Thus, you are completely correct...I am NOT an electrician, and thus as a non-holder of a full BS7671 my views and experience are absolutely useless, valueless and totally crap.
Oddly...some folks on this forum have found some of my experience mildy useful...
So, when I suggest that terminating a redundant cpc outside an enclosure isn't the worst sin in the world, I am happy to say that i do it...and if you insist that I enclose it, so be it...
I suspect that many on this forum have done that, and while being far from perfection, it's better than some of the other "solutions" we have all encountered. OK, I'm "unqualified"...but I am competent, which is all that is required in the areas in which I work... and having the Unite Guides to hand means I can get the basic data I need when I am in doubt. Armed with my proper 2-pole Fluke tester and my Kewtech MFT, I am confident that my workmanship is better than the average builder's electrician, so in summary, I can defend my external connection of a cpc on a lighting circuit by saying it doesn't comply, but it also doesn't contravene enough to put me in jail. The bathroom fitter who ignores that available cpc and uses a class 1 fitting within zones (as he did in my house, twice) shows no regard for the regs, so where does that leave us?
No more to say on this!

 

[mainline]

I think we have to keep things in perspective here. We are talking about an inch or two of 1mm CPC, tucked away in a ceiling void, where the regulations technically require it to be 2.5mm. I would be very surprised to learn that anyone here seriously thinks that this is potentially dangerous.

where the regulations technically require it to be 2.5mm.

4 mm, unless it's protected


I suppose it could be dangerous in the respect that if 2 electricians met up and started arguing the point.

The better way is to refuse to fit the carp and, as @westwood said, the only place they should be is the bin.

You can't have an exposed 1mm cpc, but It seems to be OK to have a metal bracket that the cpc connects to that's exposed ?.

If the lights didn't have the external loop and the cpc connected to the bracket within the terminal, it would be compliant ?.

 

[westward10]

I wouldn't use those fittings as there is no compliant way of connecting them unless you use a junction box and take a 4.0 cpc from it.