UK Earthing Arrangement

[Tonychitty]

Can anyone help, i had a new combi boiler fitted last year and they used mainly plastic fittings to make there connections, i have attached a photo below my question is where should my 10mm earth bond go , the incoming water pipe is made of lead, do i simply bond the 10mm earth to the incoming water pipe with a suitable clamp and then bridge the plastic plumbing tee to the nearest copper pipe.
any feedback would be mostly appreciated

 

[Tonychitty]

If the lead pipe supplies drinking water, I'd be inclined to replace it. A length of MDPE pipe and no more worries over bonding or lead contamination

yes i have been looking at that in the last couple of days that can be very expensive digging up the front garden.

 

[telectrix]

If the lead pipe supplies drinking water, I'd be inclined to replace it. A length of MDPE pipe and no more worries over bonding or lead contamination

that would entail a lot of digging up. all the way back to the water main in the strreet, which is probably rusty iron anyway.

 

[westward10]

This has got far too complicated. The lead service pipe requires a main protective bond.

 

[Tonychitty]

found this on the internet it mentions if you have an incoming plastic water pipe you do not need to main bond, however if the rest of the pipework there after is metal you will require main earth bonding, i have highlighted it. this is driving me mad any one shed some light please.

 

[westward10]

You do not have an all insulated service pipe. This thread has become over complicated, that lead pipe requires a main protective bond.

 

[Tonychitty]

You do not have an all insulated service pipe. This thread has become over complicated, that lead pipe requires a main protective bond.

last one promise, the rest of the copper in the installation after the plastic tee still requires main earth bonding no

 

[radiohead]

I'll try and shed some light for you.
In the event of a fault on your electrical system conductive parts (ie earthed metal parts of the electrical installation such as a metal light fitting or washing machine case) may experience a rise in potential relative to the general mass of earth which is at zero volts or thereabouts. Within a building that rise in potential is unlikely to be a serious hazard because a person in contact with a conductive part during the fault is likely to be stood on an electrically insulating surface such as a wooden floor. However the metallic water service is in contact with the general mass of earth and will introduce that potential into the building. Now there is a hazard because a person may be in contact with both a conductive part and the water service at the same time the fault is in progress and subject to a shock. By bonding both together the possibility of a potential difference is reduced. Where there is an insulating section immediately after the water service enters the property the rest of the copper pipework in the house has effectively been disconnected from the general mass of earth and so does not require bonding because it can no longer introduce an earth potential.
In your case the rest of the house pipework is isolated from the earth potential by the plastic joint, only the short section of lead and the filter are extraneous. As Tel stated what are the chances of contact between that and a conductive part for the duration of a fault? If you think there is then bond the lead. But you DO NOT NEED TO BOND THE REST OF THE PIPEWORK AFTER THE PLASTIC JOINT. In fact doing so may actually increase the shock risk in the event of a fault.
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last one promise, the rest of the copper in the installation after the plastic tee still requires main earth bonding no

NO!

 

[davesparks]

This has got far too complicated. The lead service pipe requires a main protective bond.

Main bonding should be on the consumers side of the stopcock, the lead pipe is before the stopcock, therefore the bond should be on the copper and not the lead.

 

[Tonychitty]

I'll try and shed some light for you.
In the event of a fault on your electrical system conductive parts (ie earthed metal parts of the electrical installation such as a metal light fitting or washing machine case) may experience a rise in potential relative to the general mass of earth which is at zero volts or thereabouts. Within a building that rise in potential is unlikely to be a serious hazard because a person in contact with a conductive part during the fault is likely to be stood on an electrically insulating surface such as a wooden floor. However the metallic water service is in contact with the general mass of earth and will introduce that potential into the building. Now there is a hazard because a person may be in contact with both a conductive part and the water service at the same time the fault is in progress and subject to a shock. By bonding both together the possibility of a potential difference is reduced. Where there is an insulating section immediately after the water service enters the property the rest of the copper pipework in the house has effectively been disconnected from the general mass of earth and so does not require bonding because it can no longer introduce an earth potential.
In your case the rest of the house pipework is isolated from the earth potential by the plastic joint, only the short section of lead and the filter are extraneous. As Tel stated what are the chances of contact between that and a conductive part for the duration of a fault? If you think there is then bond the lead. But you DO NOT NEED TO BOND THE REST OF THE PIPEWORK AFTER THE PLASTIC JOINT. In fact doing so may actually increase the shock risk in the event of a fault.
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NO!

im finally starting to get it thanks for finding the time and effort explaining this most appreciated

 

[radiohead]

Main bonding should be on the consumers side of the stopcock, the lead pipe is before the stopcock, therefore the bond should be on the copper and not the lead.

It should be but as can be seen from the picture that is not really possible. If the OP feels the need to bond the short section of extraneous lead before the insulating joint I see no reason why it cant go on the lead.

 

[westward10]

Main bonding should be on the consumers side of the stopcock, the lead pipe is before the stopcock, therefore the bond should be on the copper and not the lead.

You know full well that by some means or other that pipework requires a main protective bond.

 

[davesparks]

It should be but as can be seen from the picture that is not really possible. If the OP feels the need to bond the short section of extraneous lead before the insulating joint I see no reason why it cant go on the lead.

It is already connected to the first available bit of copper after the stopcock, and anybody can see that the plastic fitting is not a long enough insulating section to negate the need for bonding.

As long as you can find a clamp suitable for fitting to a lead pipe then yes an additional connection can be made to it, lead being a soft material will continue to move and give way over time so a normal pipe clamp will become loose over time and so is not suitable.
[automerge]1591479076[/automerge]

You know full well that by some means or other that pipework requires a main protective bond.

Yes, and it already has a main bond connected as required to the first available bit of solid metal pipe on the consumers side of the point of isolation.

 

[Tonychitty]

It is already connected to the first available bit of copper after the stopcock, and anybody can see that the plastic fitting is not a long enough insulating section to negate the need for bonding.

As long as you can find a clamp suitable for fitting to a lead pipe then yes an additional connection can be made to it, lead being a soft material will continue to move and give way over time so a normal pipe clamp will become loose over time and so is not suitable.

It is already connected to the first available bit of copper after the stopcock, and anybody can see that the plastic fitting is not a long enough insulating section to negate the need for bonding.

As long as you can find a clamp suitable for fitting to a lead pipe then yes an additional connection can be made to it, lead being a soft material will continue to move and give way over time so a normal pipe clamp will become loose over time and so is not suitable.
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Yes, and it already has a main bond connected as required to the first available bit of solid metal pipe on the consumers side of the point of isolation.

they are not connected to the main bond the plumber connected it this way to his cross bonding on combi pipes
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I'll try and shed some light for you.
In the event of a fault on your electrical system conductive parts (ie earthed metal parts of the electrical installation such as a metal light fitting or washing machine case) may experience a rise in potential relative to the general mass of earth which is at zero volts or thereabouts. Within a building that rise in potential is unlikely to be a serious hazard because a person in contact with a conductive part during the fault is likely to be stood on an electrically insulating surface such as a wooden floor. However the metallic water service is in contact with the general mass of earth and will introduce that potential into the building. Now there is a hazard because a person may be in contact with both a conductive part and the water service at the same time the fault is in progress and subject to a shock. By bonding both together the possibility of a potential difference is reduced. Where there is an insulating section immediately after the water service enters the property the rest of the copper pipework in the house has effectively been disconnected from the general mass of earth and so does not require bonding because it can no longer introduce an earth potential.
In your case the rest of the house pipework is isolated from the earth potential by the plastic joint, only the short section of lead and the filter are extraneous. As Tel stated what are the chances of contact between that and a conductive part for the duration of a fault? If you think there is then bond the lead. But you DO NOT NEED TO BOND THE REST OF THE PIPEWORK AFTER THE PLASTIC JOINT. In fact doing so may actually increase the shock risk in the event of a fault.
[automerge]1591478252[/automerge]

NO!

so this is wrong then i have highlighted in yellow
[automerge]1591482568[/automerge]

they are not connected to the main bond the plumber connected it this way to his cross bonding on combi pipes
[automerge]1591481807[/automerge]

so this is wrong then i have highlighted in yellow

and is the small plastic tee enough of an insulater to negate no main bonding

 

[marconi]

https://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/years/2019/75-may-2019/to-bond-or-not-to-bond/

To bond or not to bond....is worth a read.

In this reference it says:

In addition, the following statement has been added to Regulation 411.3.2.

“Metallic pipes entering the building having an insulating section at their point of entry need not be connected to the protective equipotential bonding.”

I hope this is helpful to answering the OP's question.

nota bene: TonyChitty - I do not in the EF ever provide public advice on the wiring regulations - all I have done is point out an IET reference on the subject. Take the sage advice of the professional electricians who know the WRs much better than me and how to apply them in particular circumstances.

 

[radiohead]

It is already connected to the first available bit of copper after the stopcock, and anybody can see that the plastic fitting is not a long enough insulating section to negate the need for bonding.

I disagree with that entirely, any plastic insert between two sections of copper pipe will electrically isolate one section from the other. If that was not the case it would be a requirement to bridge any plastic joints on copper pipework with a copper conductor. It is not a requirement.
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they are not connected to the main bond the plumber connected it this way to his cross bonding on combi pipes
[automerge]1591481807[/automerge]

so this is wrong then i have highlighted in yellow
[automerge]1591482568[/automerge]

and is the small plastic tee enough of an insulater to negate no main bonding

It is not wrong and the plastic tee is sufficient to negate the need for bonding on the rest of the pipework