Earthing mat is making me ill !

[sunnyod]

Hi All


Sorry for the lengthy first post and use of any non-standard terminology. I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to electronics, hopefully I've done enough due diligence so I'm not asking anything too silly lol ?


I've bought a Grounding mat that plugs into the mains (earth wire only) which I use for grounding my body during the day and overnight. Problem is I'm waking up in the middle of the night and my I feel like i've got an electric charge wherever my body is in contact with the mat. I've only been using it for a few days so far and the seller is saying it'll pass, however i'm not sure. I'm also sometimes getting head & neck in the morning. It's a mat like this one... Grounding mats, Earthing Yoga and Fitness mat - https://www.groundology.co.uk/earthing/grounding-mats.


I've done a bit of research into this and found that it's possible that I've either got electro hypersensitivity, or there could be some electrical interference on the earth in my house (or maybe something else?). I've got a multimeter and have tried to compare the earth with a baseline source (earthing rod in garden) and I can't see much AC current coming off of it, but I do notice that it's frequency is 50hz (I'm in the UK), so maybe it's picking up some EMF or something not sure. I've tested all plug sockets with a socket tester and all seems to be fine, earth is working normally apparently. I've got a couple of options from what I can tell

1. Find out if the mains is faulty and fix that. Socket tester shows it's clean, so not sure if there's anything else I can do to test this?
2. Upgrade the cable that I'm using to connect the mains to the mat. Guess it would need to be shielded from EMF and also filter/block out any AC current that might on the mains earth and is leaking onto the mat
   Here is an example of a product that already does this and Video here, but I'm not sure what components would be needed to replicate this. Maybe it's a ferrite core to filter any leaking current? Any recommendations for what shielded cable to use? I guess it's not advisable to use something like speaker cable that can carry too much voltage, for safety reasons? Btw, I'm trying to save money otherwise I'd just buy the example cable above (I'm looking at a multi room setup so would work out a lot)
3. Fit a grounding rod like this one (3/8in (9.5mm) x 4ft (1200mm) Copperbond Earth Rod with Cable Clamp - https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/229310) and connect it with shielded cabling into the house
   Can I use thicker cable initially so I can split it and connect up a few rooms (then use thinner (safer) cables to join with connections to the mats)? Again, I'm guessing both types of cable would need to be shielded?

Thanks so much for any help guys! Reason I'm doing this is because I've recently found a skin melanoma and noticed that the EMF levels (high and low) in the house are really high. I'm trying to reduce them all as much as I can


Cheers


Sunny

 

[nicebutdim]

Have you either done the maths or tried this as a practical experiment?
I have done both, Xc is about 6MΩ worst case. It's not exactly what I would call a shock.

Under less than ideal physical conditions, could it lead to unpleasant sensations?


Asking for a friend...

 

[Lucien Nunes]

If I stand on an insulating surface and firmly hold a wire live at 230V I can't feel anything. If I brush the back of my fingers against a plate live at 230V, I can feel as a vibration the muscular response to the stimulation caused by the few tens of microamps of capacitive leakage.

 

[James]

If I stand on an insulating surface and firmly hold a wire live at 230V I can't feel anything. If I brush the back of my fingers against a plate live at 230V, I can feel as a vibration the muscular response to the stimulation caused by the few tens of microamps of capacitive leakage.

Now there’s an experiment that needs a do not try at home warning!

 

[sunnyod]

It's slow and difficult to critique a video like that properly, based as it is on personal narrative, because it is deliberately made so that things are not presented as outright lies, just misleading and loaded. It would take me many hours to drill down and locate specific issues with it and I spent too much time on this already - I have electrical things to do!

As an example, look at the first 30 seconds. The guy says he grew up among native American people, and that one of them told him to take his shoes off because they would make him sick, and that at the time he didn't know why that would be. These are presented as though they are significant facts, and there is no reason to doubt them as facts. However, he does not say that the shoes made him sick, or that the person who told him had reliable evidence that they would make him sick, or that if they did make him sick, it was due to an electrical phenomenon.

This narrative is there to plant a seed of an idea, to get your curiosity aroused, so that when the link between sickness and grounding and shoes is later broached, you recall those 'wise words' and make a connection by yourself regardless of whether there is one or not. You infer that the native American knew through folklore that insulative shoes make you sick and now you seem to have a scientific reason for it, and you have used your powers of analysis to corroborate two independent sources to improve the reliability of your data. But actually, it's only one source, the guy who wants to promote his views on grounding.

"In simple terms, grounding is literally putting your bare feet on the ground."
Simple, but in an electrical context, not correct.

"Mother Earth is endowed with electrons." True, but misleading, as all neutral matter is endowed with electrons, including synthetic rubber shoes, the air, your body.

"These electrons are literally absorbed through your feet." Borderline false. Some exchange of electrons might occur but there is no net flow of electrons without electric current, and he does not state that they are absorbed through your feet only if you connect yourself to a source of a potential difference to drive the electron drift against the resistance.

"It's like taking handfuls of antioxidants." False. Antioxidants can participate in chemical reactions in which electrons are exchanged, but the mere presence of electrons does not cause the same chemical reactions.

I have to get on with some work now...

Thanks for breaking down some of the myths in the video, bud. Really appreciated and I was able to understand a lot of it. I'm not sure what to believe at this stage and am open to either outcome. Obviously i'm hoping that it works however as I'd like to be able to draw a line under some of my health issues

I've still not got the final setup as the earthing rods (5mm x 300mm) won't arrive until tomorrow. I did receive some cabling though, I went with the most modest speaker wire I could (13 strand 0.5mm), hopefully this should limit the danger?

I've connected the speaker wire with the same skewer I used last night and have tested for continuity. There is still 100 megohm resistance as per the original spec of the cable that came with the mat. The speaker wire is about 12m in length and is the final cabling I will be using when the steel rods arrive so it shouldn't differ much if at all in terms of electrical function (other than the old bits of meat stuck to the skewer adding resistance)

Please give feedback on this setup. I'm not married to it as it was very cheap and can easily be replaced. Assuming grounding works for me, I'll be happy to make any upgrades

FYI. I have been using the mat in my study all day today. It's been connected using the original cable directly to the skewer as the distance to the garden is short enough not to need an extension. No connection to the mains at all. So far it's been good. No discomfort or 'buzzing' that I felt before. I have also felt a decent level of 'awakeness' and considering the lacklustre sleep i've been getting last few nights I'm doing better than i'd expect. I've gotten a good chunk of work done too and have been focussed all day.

Putting things into perspective though, It could easily be psychosomatic. If that's the case I will probably know for sure after at least a week of testing. The promoters of this 'tech' say that 30m of grounding per day is a must and I will be getting on average 6-7 hours grounded in bed and 8 hours at my desk each day, so any benefits should be very noticeable

The proof is in the pudding and that 'test' for me is:
1. Being able to get a FULL nights sleep
2. Feeling more rested than I normally do
3. Having less 'brain fog' the next day due to the rest
4. Managing stress better (I'm a trader by trade so am used to a good amount of stress)
5. Any other benefits are icing on the cake at this stage

Again, thanks to the group and especially to you, Lucien. You're a patient being and I appreciate your time. I'll update you all tomorrow if there's anything of significance to talk about... Good evening all

 

[NorthernLad]

sometimes i fall asleep with my under electric blanket on with no problems (other than getting a bit hot)

This reminds me that occasionaly my wife and I get a tingle between us when we touch. (I know there will be comments)
Our electric blanket is controlled seperately, she being on high setting, me being medium, and if we happen to gently brush against each other we feel the tingle.
I dont pretend to understand the reason, but are we safe to indulge in this behaviour?

 

[Vortigern]

Thinking the above through a little; You bought a product to stop making you feel unwell or feel better. The product is making you ill. Therefore product does not deliver the promised benefits. Why are you still using it? Your dabbling with meters and wires is an attempt to fix the product that is apparently causing you harm.

Moving on, what kind of materials do you wear? What kind of bedding materials do you sleep on/in? I ask as nowadays most peoples clothes are made of recycled plastic bottles they put out for free each week and buy them back at tescos as highly expensive plastic clothes. Also bedding is invariably plastic of some kind. Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator. The shocks in bed are you generating megawatts of static electricity. Perhaps conjugal relations might provide more of a van der graaf effect, seriously!
Anyway enough of that. I am a trained acupuncturist (non practicing) it is held in this ancient technique there are meridians points in the feet that benefit greatly from making direct contact with the earth for an hour or two each day. In the book of Abramelin he recommends walking on the earth for a couple of hours at the point of your birth location. There are stranger things than in your or mine philosophy! I haven't mentioned the acupuncture before as certain members on here might treat me unkindly. I trained in Leamington Spa college of traditional chinese acupuncture under Professor Worsley, but that was a another lifetime.

 

[loz2754]

Thinking the above through a little; You bought a product to stop making you feel unwell or feel better. The product is making you ill. Therefore product does not deliver the promised benefits. Why are you still using it? Your dabbling with meters and wires is an attempt to fix the product that is apparently causing you harm.

Moving on, what kind of materials do you wear? What kind of bedding materials do you sleep on/in? I ask as nowadays most peoples clothes are made of recycled plastic bottles they put out for free each week and buy them back at tescos as highly expensive plastic clothes. Also bedding is invariably plastic of some kind. Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator. The shocks in bed are you generating megawatts of static electricity. Perhaps conjugal relations might provide more of a van der graaf effect, seriously!
Anyway enough of that. I am a trained acupuncturist (non practicing) it is held in this ancient technique there are meridians points in the feet that benefit greatly from making direct contact with the earth for an hour or two each day. In the book of Abramelin he recommends walking on the earth for a couple of hours at the point of your birth location. There are stranger things than in your or mine philosophy! I haven't mentioned the acupuncture before as certain members on here might treat me unkindly. I trained in Leamington Spa college of traditional chinese acupuncture under Professor Worsley, but that was a another lifetime.

Interesting @Vortigern. I have had acupuncture treatment, also reflexology and kinesiology. All of which are based on principles based outside of mainstream science. I'm of the opinion that the 2 are not mutually exclusive, and each has a place, sometimes working in tandem.

 

[timhoward]

Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator

Thank you for making me laugh out loud for almost a minute - that was the exact tonic I needed this morning.

 

[Darkwood]

I believe what is occurring here with the OP and improvements to health, sleep etc when 'grounded' are nothing more than a placebo effect, this is why my critique on the posted video link highlighted the fact that the experiments lacked any form of control sample thus effectively making them void.

The question we thus need to ask here is, if the outcome is positive and favourable to the OP's health then is it such a bad thing even if it is shown there is nothing in this grounding claim, personally I think not unless there is a safety issue in doing this or a financial burden, if this is simply is a cost to the OP we also have to way up if it is worth it.
I would in all honesty prefer to be fully open here and explain that there is no real solid evidence of 'grounding' working, there is no electrical theory I can apply to the claims made and no medical support either, the effects thus are in my opinion based on the placebo effect, his own psychological response to the believe in the system, I believe that demonstrating this could be a positive thing as it would in fact show many of the symptoms the OP has can be controlled in other ways, what it shows is many of this symptoms have no physical foundation and simply are psychologically based and thus require a total new approach to reducing or stopping them. (disclaimer - only my opinion not a professional psychological diagnosis)

I am of a scientific mindset and a logical approach and nothing presented or what I can find in research on this remotely convinces me there is anything in these grounding claims, in fact I am convinced it is more a hoax than anything else because of the many deliberate attempts to package what are factual points into a very misleading context, attempts to show relationship between other earthing systems in electrical circuits which are not relevant and work in a very different way and then self confessed claims of positive results from teams of voices who you find have vested interests in the claims been believed..
It is not a knee-jerk reaction here to dismiss this because it sounds crazy but the fact I spent a bit of time to see what was been claimed and how they demonstrated and tried to prove such claims, the fact that many lines in my opinion had been crossed to mislead and convince the viewer it was real kind of sealed the deal that it is a total hoax, one does not need to go to such lengths if there was something genuine in this.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Onwards.

L.K. "Grounding means connecting to the earth to support the specific function of the organs of your body. It supports the body as a whole but it specifically supports organ systems down to the tissues and the cellular function of the entire body"

Presented as a definition, but meaningless. No definition of 'support' is given nor is there a generally recognised mechanism, by which connecting to the earth 'supports' functions of organs and cells, that the speaker is referencing implicitly.

C.O. "In 1960 we invented synthetic materials."

False. Viscose 1905; Nylon 1930s; Terylene 1940s; etc.

L.K. "It's the most common-sense thing that we are organsims that live and grow and depend entirely on the Earth while we're alive, and yet we have completely isolated ourselves from it. We're so disconnected that it becomes this weird thing if we actually slip our shoes off."

Conflation of different ideas. We depend on the Earth for many resources and are not isolated from it with regard to those resources. Wearing insulative footwear isolates us electrically from the mass of earth, but electrical connection to the mass of earth is not one of the resources on which we are proven to depend. Therefore that form of 'disconnection' may be inconsequential. Not everyone finds it weird to take their shoes off.

C.O. [Holding and indicating a trainer] "This was the single thing that happened, that probably caused the proliferation of inflammation-related health disorders, far and above anything else."

Presented as a statement, but with the qualifier 'probably' and no attribution or reference to any study to justify the statement.

"S. S. [emphatically] "This is so incredible, this is Nobel Prize material."

Does not say what, specifically, is 'Nobel Prize material.' Viewers might reasonably infer that it is the connection between insulative footwear and a supposed proliferation of inflammation-related health disorders, metioned a few seconds earlier by C.O. Seems to be intended to lend 'independent' support to amplify the significance of the suggestion made by C.O.


There, two minutes. More later.

 

[sunnyod]

Thinking the above through a little; You bought a product to stop making you feel unwell or feel better. The product is making you ill. Therefore product does not deliver the promised benefits. Why are you still using it? Your dabbling with meters and wires is an attempt to fix the product that is apparently causing you harm.

Moving on, what kind of materials do you wear? What kind of bedding materials do you sleep on/in? I ask as nowadays most peoples clothes are made of recycled plastic bottles they put out for free each week and buy them back at tescos as highly expensive plastic clothes. Also bedding is invariably plastic of some kind. Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator. The shocks in bed are you generating megawatts of static electricity. Perhaps conjugal relations might provide more of a van der graaf effect, seriously!
Anyway enough of that. I am a trained acupuncturist (non practicing) it is held in this ancient technique there are meridians points in the feet that benefit greatly from making direct contact with the earth for an hour or two each day. In the book of Abramelin he recommends walking on the earth for a couple of hours at the point of your birth location. There are stranger things than in your or mine philosophy! I haven't mentioned the acupuncture before as certain members on here might treat me unkindly. I trained in Leamington Spa college of traditional chinese acupuncture under Professor Worsley, but that was a another lifetime.

Awesome, a fellow tinfoiler lol I'm into all kinds of stuff, you're very much not alone. It takes courage to come somewhere like this and expose yourself, but it helps if you don't know anyone (much like I didn't)! Accupuncture and meridians are 100% a thing, shame big pharma can't make money from it and promote it instead of rubbishing through their corrupt media shills. God speed to you and thanks for the support.

FYI. I Sleep in boxers only and yes I hear you about the static collection through clothes, etc. Before I came across this idea of grounding (about 2 months ago) I knew very little on the subject of bodily electricity. I knew about frequencies, vibration, chakras, etc. but didn't know the concept of the human body being able to store positive charge and the need to discharge it (much like a cloud and lightning).

I'm one sleep in so far. I didn't get a full nights sleep (about 6 hours) but it's increased from the night before and also the quality has improved. I'm thinking clearer too... The static I was getting in bed when I plugged the mat into the mains is GONE! Go figure. However, there is a very distinct tingling at the points of contact with the mat, it feels nice and not like I'm being micro-shocked. I'm also perceiving a sense of sinking into the mat and I was able to sleep a lot longer on my back last night, where normally I get unfomfortable and have to move onto my side to get to sleep. Not sure what all this means, but quality of sleep has improved.

So far so good!

 

[sunnyod]

I believe what is occurring here with the OP and improvements to health, sleep etc when 'grounded' are nothing more than a placebo effect, this is why my critique on the posted video link highlighted the fact that the experiments lacked any form of control sample thus effectively making them void.

The question we thus need to ask here is, if the outcome is positive and favourable to the OP's health then is it such a bad thing even if it is shown there is nothing in this grounding claim, personally I think not unless there is a safety issue in doing this or a financial burden, if this is simply is a cost to the OP we also have to way up if it is worth it.
I would in all honesty prefer to be fully open here and explain that there is no real solid evidence of 'grounding' working, there is no electrical theory I can apply to the claims made and no medical support either, the effects thus are in my opinion based on the placebo effect, his own psychological response to the believe in the system, I believe that demonstrating this could be a positive thing as it would in fact show many of the symptoms the OP has can be controlled in other ways, what it shows is many of this symptoms have no physical foundation and simply are psychologically based and thus require a total new approach to reducing or stopping them. (disclaimer - only my opinion not a professional psychological diagnosis)

I am of a scientific mindset and a logical approach and nothing presented or what I can find in research on this remotely convinces me there is anything in these grounding claims, in fact I am convinced it is more a hoax than anything else because of the many deliberate attempts to package what are factual points into a very misleading context, attempts to show relationship between other earthing systems in electrical circuits which are not relevant and work in a very different way and then self confessed claims of positive results from teams of voices who you find have vested interests in the claims been believed..
It is not a knee-jerk reaction here to dismiss this because it sounds crazy but the fact I spent a bit of time to see what was been claimed and how they demonstrated and tried to prove such claims, the fact that many lines in my opinion had been crossed to mislead and convince the viewer it was real kind of sealed the deal that it is a total hoax, one does not need to go to such lengths if there was something genuine in this.

Take a look at this. There were 21 peer reviewed studies a couple years back, probably more now. It's been proved to decrease inflammation (a major if not THE cause of most diseases) The effects of grounding (earthing) on inflammation, the immune response, wound healing, and prevention and treatment of chronic inflammatory and autoimmune diseases - PubMed - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25848315/

 

[Mike Johnson]

@Vortigern I poo pooped acupuncture for most of my life until one of my cats developed Arthritis, the vet recommended acupuncture and my wife agreed for them to try, me still sceptical, on arrival home from her first treatment the cat ran up the stairs to her basket for the first time in months, now as far as I know, even though I think they are intelligent, I don't think they know about the placebo effect, I am now more enlightened.

 

[Deleted account]

I think if I was that cat I’d run upstairs after being stabbed and prodded just to prove there is nothing wrong in the hope I don’t have to go back and get stabbed again. Cats are=smarter than you think.

 

[Darkwood]

@sunnyod

It is nice to see someone deliver on information and support on why they believe what they do, in looking at the links however...

Reading the study I find it still lacks in a control standard I would believe would be needed to gather any real results that are reliable...

-No of participants 8

-No of control groups 2

-Peer review time limit of 10 business days

-Peer review is classed as single blind IE we have no information on the reviewers or their impartiality here or their understanding of the subject they are reviewing, it is very easy to present a paper that is very convincing if there is a general lack of understanding on the subject matter by the reader,

-The company from which these papers were passed to for peer review also have a chequered history, in 2013 a sting was set up with deliberate false and intentionally flawed paper was submitted to them which they failed to realise and subsequently published it, this actually got their membership of the OASPA terminated and it wasn't for a couple more yrs until they provided proof that they had taken adequate steps to stop this happening again and did they get their membership reestablished, I also add that this company also is a small entity in the scope of things having only approx 50 employees, now this on its own does not mean the review and publication of 'grounding' is in anyway a hoax or scam but all together as a combined list as above it does raise some serious questions on the whole subject matter.

What I would like to see is these papers been presented to larger organisations who allow extensive peer review periods to allow repeat experimentation and confirmation of results, also open peer identity so we have full transparency of reviewers, their field of knowledge and their credibility.

Any credible study of this would be done with hundreds if not thousands of subjects with a 3 point control method to rule out coincidence or subconscious influence that could easily occur in the above study.

What needs to be realised is that this kind of market place is worth millions and sometimes billions to certain people, groups and companies and it is not unheard of to see orchestrated scams been pulled, the recent incident with one of the world's most respected medical journal publishers Lancet and the New England Medical Journal regarding a study on hydroxychloroquine use for treatment of covid 19 hit the world last year as both groups retracted the papers and demonstrates the lengths some people go to for recognition, financial support or political motivation.