EICR and unnecessary work?

[plugsandsparks]

Well, its wasn't spectacular but it did take a while. Have donated anyway as i was intending to either way.
My view is the smokes would have gone off first as it was horrible and i wasn't even in the garage, i was well away. So for clients in North Derbyshire i offer to install up front RCD and linked 240V smoke alarms at cost of materials for three homeowner / residents in my area. Its only a small difference i know but its a difference



[video=youtube_share;lug9DPG3nj4]http://youtu.be/lug9DPG3nj4[/video]

 

[Strima]

1. Cool, I like burning things.

2. I would have done it slightly differently, possibly a plasterboard jig with an outlet, plug in device and a lamp set on a very low heat. It would have taken longer but I think it would have achieved the same result.

3. It does prove a point about RCD's however how would the outcome change with say a standard BS1363 plugtop wired to an old TV?

4. Your garage is too clean!!! :lol:

 

[somersetsparks]

A true gent.... followed through on a promise!
Interesting experiment and fair enough the rcd tripped first!

 

[plugsandsparks]

1. Cool, I like burning things.

2. I would have done it slightly differently, possibly a plasterboard jig with an outlet, plug in device and a lamp set on a very low heat. It would have taken longer but I think it would have achieved the same result.
3. It does prove a point about RCD's however how would the outcome change with say a standard BS1363 plugtop wired to an old TV?

4. Your garage is too clean!!! :lol:

I would have done it differently for sure, i would have got a fume cupboard and extractor as the garage is full of essence of PSUs, really stinks. Just had a shower as its all over me and i wasn't in the garage but in the fresh air, just walking back in was enough, yuk.

I understand there are different scenarios where stuff is plugged into wall sockets direct but from what i have seen, this was a pretty typical scenario i see in homes and offices.

TV - probably the aerial will help with leakage to earth. I meggered the garage floor before i started and it was 20Mohm so was hoping the extension lead would lend a hand. Goes to show probably best to plug in your DI to an extension lead. I am guessing as i dont know how the circuit leaked as the lot is in the wheelie bin and i ain't pulling it apart now. What i was confident about was the 20A MCB would be happy pumping juice into it.

 

[spark 68]

Well done that man (P&S) for the experiment and the donation.

I think your results are inconclusive though, it is a pity you did not analyse what caused the RCD to trip, as this must have been a fault to earth, which technically cannot happen on class II equipment, I suspect it was to do with the 4-way extension.

A better way might have been to mount a normal two way socket in a piece of plaster board.

Well done anyway though, I respect you for giving the donation and having the balls to try.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I put the fire out with water so will have to dry it all out before i can megger it, but looking at it (its just a load of carbonised mess) it looks like carbonised plastic has managed to find a route to earth. No point in pursuing the technical side because for it to trip it has to find a route, i was just predicting that in a typical scenario it would in fact find one quicker than the B20 tripping through short circuit / overload, so from that perspective i still think it scores higher than no RCD even for Di.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Just meggered the remains, extension lead remarkably intact. The PSUs though were tracking to earth through the output cables. After probing the whole lot to make out what was going on i was able to get a 0.21ohm reading between the earth pin of the extension lead and the carbonised remains close to the hotest area. Many areas of the remains showed a reduced insulation property between 3 and 10Mohm depending on how badly it was burned. So i would say the double insulation changed to a double conductor once it got really hot and found a route to the earth inside the extension lead, although the extension lead is intact i would say its gone across the surface via multiple paths.

 

[Stevesplatto]

My understanding of EICRs is they are not to check if an installation is compliant to the latest regs unless, off course, there has been a new addition.
A blanket 'C2' for any installation because it doesn't have an RCD fitted is wrong no matter how desirable RCDs are. The green OSG gives a clear example of a 20 year old installation that's marked down as 'C3' for absence of RCD's to socket outlets used by ordinary persons. we can't just arbitrarily give unsatisfactory reports because an installation could be made safer with the latest equipment..

I find all this a complete PITA. What are we supposed to do, have a complete library of regs to cover any installation we come across? Should we really call installations installed to say 10th edition safe? Most inspections I do there is no previous PIR or accurate record of when alterations/additions were done so how would I know which regs the installation should be compliant to? We just make judgement calls?


I think there should be clear legislation mandating protective devices (BS7671 is non-statutory) requiring at least let properties to be protected by RCDs.


Cheers
s

 

[reefagrim]

Rcd are the best thing ever since the voltage trip they do ajob that they are required to do however . working on the inbalance between earth and or L/N they are designed to allow the uncompetent victim a degree of survival by allowing no more than 0.3 of a amp which should cause sight discomfort and or possibile in difficulty in breathing 0.5 of a amp will be sufficient to stop the heart.
If the guidelines set by the regs recommends a rcd should be fitted and the inspector therefore recommends that a rcd should be fitted then the client should actually listen and beaware that it has a reason to be fitted that is not attached to money. but remembering that at the ccu there are also fitted cb which also work and rcbo are both combined then it can be assumed that these devices will work as they should

it should be remembered that in the world of competent electricians that the incompetent ( the public) will do/try/succeed in making a electrical installation dangerous when they use or do DIY
a friend of mine wanted a socket installed high level above the bath so he could mount a tv when i explained everything why he couldnt he said what about a classII type afetr a lot of swearing he saw my point now he uses a portable and a extention lead .....head in my hands slowly shaking
my point is as long as the electrician or inspector does or writes everything to cover the laws of building control and the recommendations or the regs bs7671 then we can be safety leave the installation happily

 

[Guitarist]

Rcd are the best thing ever since the voltage trip they do ajob that they are required to do however . working on the inbalance between earth and or L/N they are designed to allow the uncompetent victim a degree of survival by allowing no more than 0.3 of a amp which should cause sight discomfort and or possibile in difficulty in breathing 0.5 of a amp will be sufficient to stop the heart.
I

Think you mean 0.03 of an amp.

Unless you are talking about a 300mA RCD of course, in which case I retract my statement....