EICR code re conduit

[SSE]

Have been asked to do remedials on an EICR that was carried out a year or so ago by another electrician. Curious to know what code you would give for the following. The system used to be conduit & singles but was rewired in twin at some point. By the looks of it the conduits were cut at top & twins dropped down to sockets & switches & terminated in same place. Pretty standard. Since then though they’ve dropped the height of sockets so the twin is still coming down the conduit but the new sockets box have been raggled out & fitted below. So where the conduit drops would have been earthed before via termination to old attached box they won’t be now. So essentially twin running through a length of unearthed conduit.

 

[davesparks]

No code, there is nothing technically wrong with insulated and sheathed cable in a metal tube.

Plus if the conduit is plastered into the wall and so not exposed to touch there's even less of a concern.

 

[DefyG]

No problem unless not in safe zones!

 

[westward10]

Doesn't answer your question but both the 15th and 16th Editions specifically make note of this under a side heading "Special provisions and exemptions", most commentaries to these books also noted it.
15th Ed;
471-26 It is permissible to dispense with measures of protection against indirect contact in the following instances:
(v) Short lengths of metal conduit for mechanical protection of cables having a non-metallic sheath, or other metal enclosures mechanically protecting equipment complying with Regulations 471-16 to 471-18.
16th Ed;
471-13-04 It is permissible to dispense with protective measures against indirect contact in the following instances:
(v) inaccessible lengths of metal conduit not exceeding 150mm.

From what I can see these were the last mentions of it.

 

[Julie.]

I may be missing something here, but you say they have used twin, so there is no earth at any switch or socket - is that correct?
(Other than ones where the conduit is continuous end to end)

If so that's technically a C2 - but I would consider it C1 and wouldn't be comfortable leaving the sockets energised!

 

[westward10]

I think twin is T&E. The conduits have been chopped so they just contain these cables, later the sockets have been moved isolating the conduits from the back boxes hence they are no longer earthed, I think.

 

[7029 dave]

Standard practice in domestic cutting full conduit systems of the past, so to rewire with T&E on switches drops and socket drops etc. Done hundreds of rewires like this saves time and doesn't spoil the decoration.
No code

 

[Julie.]

I think twin is T&E. The conduits have been chopped so they just contain these cables, later the sockets have been moved isolating the conduits from the back boxes hence they are no longer earthed, I think.

If it's t&e then that's fine, no code of course, but several years ago twin was extensively used when moving from household conduit to pvc/pvc.

That presents a fairly wide issue where lighting circuits especially have no CPC/earth,

As the op stated twin rather than t&e and the age of the actual rewire isn't known, only the last EICR , I don't really want to make an assumption, especially as it makes a major difference in code/safety of the installation.

 

[davesparks]

I may be missing something here, but you say they have used twin, so there is no earth at any switch or socket - is that correct?

The OP has told us that the back boxes are earthed. They said that where sockets have been moved down the conduit is no longer earthed via the backbox, this tells us that the backbox is earthed and therefore there is an earth at the sockets.


Also if the sockets are wired in the old 1/044 twin then I'm sure other issues would have come to light by now.

 

[SSE]

I may be missing something here, but you say they have used twin, so there is no earth at any switch or socket - is that correct?
(Other than ones where the conduit is continuous end to end)

If so that's technically a C2 - but I would consider it C1 and wouldn't be comfortable leaving the sockets energised!

Sorry I maybe didn’t explain it very well. There are earths at sockets & switches through the twin CPC’s yes. What had been noted was that now that the new boxes weren’t attached to the conduit like the old now defunct boxes were there was cable passing through unearthed conduit.

 

[Julie.]

Sorry I maybe didn’t explain it very well. There are earths at sockets & switches through the twin CPC’s yes. What had been noted was that now that the new boxes weren’t attached to the conduit like the old now defunct boxes were there was cable passing through unearthed conduit.

Then there's no code.

If it were singles through the conduit, there is an argument that it's equivalent to class I so needs to be earthed/bonded (as exposed conductive part), but pvc/pvc is double insulated, so it's equivalent to class II and earth/bonding isn't required.

 

[brianmoooore]

No different from the unearthed metal capping you occasionally come across on drops.

 

[cliffed]

No different from the unearthed metal capping you occasionally come across on drops.

Agree when you have a Senior Moment how is that still allowed, especially with all the regulations in place now, always a dangerous situation in regards to penetration Live - Earth contact