EICR coding disagreement....

[polo1]

r2 on a RFC, not continuous, but every socket has an earth & acceptable Zs. Code 2 or 3 (r1 & rn are fine)?:dunce2:

 

[davesparks]

C3... improvement recommended. i'd be inclined to fix it if it could be done economically and without pulling up floors etc.

So it only needs fixing if it's an easy job?

Yeeeehaaaaaa

 

[D Skelton]

Reg 543.2.9 says that with the exception of metal enclosures or coverings used as a cpc the cpc must be run as a ring with both ends connected to the earthing terminal at the circuits origin

What does 543.2.9 say in its entirety. Word for word. I'm away from home and don't have my bgb?

 

[davesparks]

What does 543.2.9 say in its entirety. Word for word. I'm away from home and don't have my bgb?

Here you go

 

[D Skelton]

Guess I'll have to eat humble pie on that one then.

My point still stands though, if single cpc is adequate to carry fault current then at worst C3, if not then C2.

 

[telectrix]

So it only needs fixing if it's an easy job?

Yeeeehaaaaaa

i didn't mean easy. customer could refuse a quote or refuse carpets /flooring being lifted/damaged.

 

[polo1]

All, thanks for the views. The problem is not at a socket, these were all checked. The adiabatic equation indicates a cpc of 2mm with a pfc of 1.14kA:thinking:

This mid floor rental flat is fully floored in continuous laminate and the costs to lift and relay would be horrendous (never mind the cost/time to find the fault). Board has no spare ways, but I'm thinking 2, 20 amp radials may be the only way to go.The l/lord is not being difficult and I'm just trying to ensure a safe installation without costs being exhorbitant.

 

[davesparks]

All, thanks for the views. The problem is not at a socket, these were all checked. The adiabatic equation indicates a cpc of 2mm with a pfc of 1.14kA:thinking:

This mid floor rental flat is fully floored in continuous laminate and the costs to lift and relay would be horrendous (never mind the cost/time to find the fault). Board has no spare ways, but I'm thinking 2, 20 amp radials may be the only way to go.The l/lord is not being difficult and I'm just trying to ensure a safe installation without costs being exhorbitant.

Assuming its T&E then it's a C2

As long as you can seperate the ring in the right place then that will work. Unless the fault is at a joint where a spur has been joined in as you will loose the spur when you disconnect that bit of cable.

 

[Octopus]

Have you tried doing a Zs at all the sockets to see if there is a "jump" in the readings?

 

[polo1]

Have you tried doing a Zs at all the sockets to see if there is a "jump" in the readings?

That's a good point M. Interestingly, there was very little variation in the values. It's quite a compact flat, not a large floor area.

Dave, there was already a spur with the cpc going nowhere - socket now disconnected, but it does suggest an under floor jb.

 

[Diddy]

Even if the adiabatic equation showed compliance I would still be c3 with a further investigation required. We are supposed to ensure the install is safe for continued use ans conforms to at least bs7671....You don't just "loose" 1 conductor and do an equation and suddenly the disappearing conductor becomes of no consequence lol. It would bother me even more if it is wired in T+E then I would be even more concerned.

 

[davesparks]

Even if the adiabatic equation showed compliance I would still be c3 with a further investigation required. We are supposed to ensure the install is safe for continued use ans conforms to at least bs7671....You don't just "loose" 1 conductor and do an equation and suddenly the disappearing conductor becomes of no consequence lol. It would bother me even more if it is wired in T+E then I would be even more concerned.

You've missed the point!

If the adiabatic shows that it does not comply as a cpc then it is a C2 as it is potentially dangerous.
If it shows that it does comply then it is not potentially dangerous but only non compliant with the regs so is a C3.

Why would you be more concerned if it's T&E ? A broken cpc is a broken cpc whatever the cable is made of

 

[Diddy]

You've missed the point!

If the adiabatic shows that it does not comply as a cpc then it is a C2 as it is potentially dangerous.
If it shows that it does comply then it is not potentially dangerous but only non compliant with the regs so is a C3.

Why would you be more concerned if it's T&E ? A broken cpc is a broken cpc whatever the cable is made of

Well it would suggest that the fabric of the cable is broken somewhere and if it is not at an accessible point you would have to wonder how/why you have lost 1 core out of 3....I suppose a good IR test result could put your mind at rest.....don't mind me im sure I have some sort of OCD lol, sometimes it's helpful and sometimes its just a nuisance.

 

[davesparks]

Well it would suggest that the fabric of the cable is broken somewhere and if it is not at an accessible point you would have to wonder how/why you have lost 1 core out of 3....I suppose a good IR test result could put your mind at rest.....don't mind me im sure I have some sort of OCD lol, sometimes it's helpful and sometimes its just a nuisance.

I would be far more concerned with SWA or MICC as it would logically be significant damage to loose the connection wheras with T&E it would far more likely be a single connection broken.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Why a C3? We run ring final circuits in steel conduit and use that as a single earth.

Where is the reg that says r2 must be a ring?

That would be in Chapter 54.
Regulation 543.2.9.

 

[D Skelton]

That would be in Chapter 54.
Regulation 543.2.9.

Might help to read through the entire thread in future.