EICR - commercial and domestic differences

[Eddiesparks]

Hello there boys and girls,

I've been away a few weeks, being rushed off my feet with loads of work thank God! Hope you all have enough to do yourselves.

Anyway...

I have done a fair few EICRs on domestic properties and I think I am pretty clued up about the relevant regs etc.

I'm about to do a couple of EICRs on the common areas of some flats for the management company. I don't think there's many differences, just doing the usual testing for sockets and lights pretty much - in fact a fair buit more simple (?!?!). They have 60898 boards with no RCD protection at all. I suppose as sockets being used by unskilled or uninstructed people, concealed cables <50mm BUT sockets unlikely to be powering mobile outdoor equipment and no bathroom zones (obviously!) then this in itself is only a C3. (providing satisfactory Zs results)

Is this right?

Also, is there anything else glaringly different between domestic and commerical (as I understand common areas are) EICRs?

There's no emergency lighting and no fire alarm system but i understand this is not to be explicitly highlighted as a fault on the EICR as this will be the remit of the fire risk assessment.

I will price up the remedial work too but I am not a cowboy - I genuinely always try and use the regs to try and find cheaper solutions for customers rather than the other way round like some cheeky so-and-sos do (giving us honest blokes a bad name!!)

Thanks peoples,

Eddie

 

[MDJ]

I don't agree that a stairwell is a commercial area, shops, offices, schools, fire stations etc etc are commercial, your Job is still Domestic in my opinion.

 

[wozz]

I'd say it is a commercial area, if its a fire escape I'd be looking at how cabling is supported in these areas. I'd say cleaners are not normal people they should be using equipment that pat tested ect, what equipment is used outside?

 

[Badged01]

An EICR is an EICR wherever you do it (domestic, commercial, industrial) as you are reporting your findings against the latest edition of BS7671 which applies across the board to everything. There are no such things as domestic EICR's or commercial EICR's.

You as the inspector may have a view on the code to be applied depending upon its use but I would suggest you be prudent to look at the guidance given by the ECS in their publication(s). A lot of which will cover your work on flats!

My interpretation is that provided you have no sockets likely to power outdoor equipment then a lack of RCD's is C3 and a lack of fire/smoke/emerg lighting etc .. is not covered by BS7671 and hence the EICR.

Ultimately you as the inspector can decided as you see fit on an inspection and code accordingly ..... you have power brother, use it wisely!

 

[Hawkmoon]

Surely if the landlord (or tradesmen) comes round to do work on the external of the building, then these communal sockets is exactly what they will use (metered to landlord) - don't see how you can rate them as 'unlikely for outdoor use'

Code 2

 

[Eddiesparks]

Yeah thats what i was maybe thinking hawkmoon. Is there a C3 allowance for skilled people using sockets outdoors?!?!

 

[Badged01]

Surely if the landlord (or tradesmen) comes round to do work on the external of the building, then these communal sockets is exactly what they will use (metered to landlord) - don't see how you can rate them as 'unlikely for outdoor use' Code 2

That's what he's being paid his big bucks as an inspector for, doing the EICR using his knowledge and experience of their probable use!

Will they or wont they be used, Code 2 or Code 3 ........

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Yeah thats what i was maybe thinking hawkmoon. Is there a C3 allowance for skilled people using sockets outdoors?!?!

Think thats a definate no-no!

 

[Hawkmoon]

That's what he's being paid his big bucks as an inspector for, doing the EICR using his knowledge and experience of their probable use!

Will they or wont they be used, Code 2 or Code 3 ........

- - - Updated - - -



Think thats a definate no-no!

Agreed - apart from the 'big bucks' bit...never seen that before!

 

[Badged01]

Agreed - apart from the 'big bucks' bit...never seen that before!

Really?!? On my last assessment I was informed that the going rate for an EICR was £250! That said Ive not reached those dizzy pay height either, but also havent quite stooped to the £50 drive-by EICR!

 

[Eddiesparks]

I'm doing this one for £17.50 a circuit. Usually do for £20 a circuit. Roughly!

I tell you what though, if a CU is not or incorrectly labelled i swear it takes about half an hour to work out what everything is!

 

[Eddiesparks]

That's what he's being paid his big bucks as an inspector for, doing the EICR using his knowledge and experience of their probable use!

Will they or wont they be used, Code 2 or Code 3 ........

- - - Updated - - -



Think thats a definate no-no!

Yeah i was sort of joking haha. But it is an interesting point, what about skilled people working outside. You'd expect a tradesman to be sensible about extension leads in the rain etc. Actually no you wouldnt at all... ;-)

 

[Octopus]

Sounds to me as it you are doing 3 x EICR's - 1 for each flat and 1 for the communal area.

 

[Badged01]

Actually no you wouldnt at all...

You're right many a "skilled" tradesman wouldnt know anything about it!

I think the BGB is quite specific about RCD requirements at 411.3.3 --- Sockets likely for outside equipment under 32A needing RCD regardless of who is using them, skilled or otherwise. (Whilst I dont normally like to quote regs in this case its specific and as once told to me, quoting regs pulls the birds!)

 

[Eddiesparks]

Sounds to me as it you are doing 3 x EICR's - 1 for each flat and 1 for the communal area.

No it's actually all the common areas including outside lights garages etc. There's about 8 boards in all. It's also all a bit of a mess lives exposed left right and centre. For example 230v going into supply side of tranny for entry system round corner of dark cup'd. Reach in to find the light switch and BUZZZZZZ

 

[GLENNSPARK]

No it's actually all the common areas including outside lights garages etc. There's about 8 boards in all. It's also all a bit of a mess lives exposed left right and centre. For example 230v going into supply side of tranny for entry system round corner of dark cup'd. Reach in to find the light switch and BUZZZZZZ

i`d be looking at the type of cable used here..in these communal areas..

should be LSF...

 

[wozz]

What reg number would you attribute to cabling in a communal area not being LSF?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

What reg number would you attribute to cabling in a communal area not being LSF?

OK...see your point and will stand corrected...i however had it as good practice..

 

[markc123]

I'm doing this one for £17.50 a circuit. Usually do for £20 a circuit. Roughly!

I tell you what though, if a CU is not or incorrectly labelled i swear it takes about half an hour to work out what everything is!

Shouldn't really stick ure prices on an open forum mate...

 

[Badged01]

What reg number would you attribute to cabling in a communal area not being LSF?

Cant think of the reg off the top of my head (somewhere in chapter 1) but its around external/environmental factors. If you as the inspector deem its applicable of course!

 

[Badged01]

Im sad so I look for something, babysitting all day makes you do strange things ....... 132.5.1? Supplemented by environmental factors in the BGB appendix's?

Never quoted anything to do with these on an EICR myself but could see how you could apply it -- the BGB is open to interpretation!

 

[wozz]

personally I wouldnt be going to 132.5.1, 132.5.1 seems a bit closer but I would describe a average landlords to be susceptible, i think that lot is more aimed at explosive atmospheres ect, but could be wrong.

id be looking at 422.2.1, if its high rise flats, not sure if the OPs situation is this. I also have a note ive written saying 11 storey plus not sure where that came from.

Im sure there is another that refers to fixings being able to withstand fire but cant find it at the moment, im sure the one im thinking of doesnt require BD2.

Glenspark nice to see people can admit their mistakes on forums, most dont.

It was good to have a stroll through the book its been a while!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

personally I wouldnt be going to 132.5.1, 132.5.1 seems a bit closer but I would describe a average landlords to be susceptible, i think that lot is more aimed at explosive atmospheres ect, but could be wrong.

id be looking at 422.2.1, if its high rise flats, not sure if the OPs situation is this. I also have a note ive written saying 11 storey plus not sure where that came from.

Im sure there is another that refers to fixings being able to withstand fire but cant find it at the moment, im sure the one im thinking of doesnt require BD2.

Glenspark nice to see people can admit their mistakes on forums, most dont.

It was good to have a stroll through the book its been a while!

well...more often than not i`m making comments and remarks about others faux pas...so its nice to be given a slap....its needed from time to time...lol..

 

[Badged01]

...so its nice to be given a slap....its needed from time to time...lol..

But preferably from a leggy blond with big accessories and in the stilletto heels

 

[wozz]

Wouldnt call that a slap. haha

Also wouldnt say you were wrong, I would just say its more down to the construction of the building and the designer to make them decisions than the poor sparky who at most could comment.

 

[Eddiesparks]

What reg number would you attribute to cabling in a communal area not being LSF?

Regulation 422.2.1 - escape routes and lsf. So this counts definitely as an escape route?? C3?! What do you lot think?