EICR for flat built in 2007: downlights deemed as C2

[se1landlord]

Hello friendly electricians!

Just before the deadline (...) I commissioned an EICR report that came back as unsatisfactory. The only thing that I can see in the report that points to that is a C2 observation mentioning that "All lights need to be changed to fire rated". No specific regulation mentioned.
The electrician has quoted around £900 to replace 21 downlights.

I'm finding contradictory reports online around this and the quote seems pricey, but what do I know. The electrician said it'll take between half a day and a full day.

Do you have any feedback on whether this is would be likely to be a C2 and whether the quote is reasonable?

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Best to allow an extra £70 for a PCN (parking ticket)

Ain’t that what Nagy does , just sticks £60 on every job incase he gets a ticket

 

[Dartlec]

As per BS7671 you’ll need ip 20 fire rated ones.
Don’t have the book front of me but you can get one and check yourself
It’s called the 18th editor BS8671 book.
It’s in there.

Not a great sign that he tells you to buy a book but can't be bothered to find the regulation himself to justify his quote.

There may have been a requirements for fire rated ones when installed new in your case - (though the requirement for them would be Building Regulations Part B I believe, not BS7671). That would depend on the method of construction and fire containment used at the time.

The issue is whether they are now a C2 (required improvement) on an EICR.

The Best Practice Guide does list as a C2

"Fire Risk from incorrectly installed electrical equipment, including incorrectly selected or installed downlighters"

So a C2 may be appropriate - but if they are a purpose built block of flats, not just converted houses, then I suspect the ceiling may not be a fire barrier and the lights might be a C3 at worst.

But you should definitely be looking around for other quotes imo.

If the work is done, you do not need to get a new EICR done btw, though you will need to keep proof of the work (ideally a certificate for the installation) - to show that you've had the remedial work done.

 

[westward10]

If it is a block of flats then each dwelling is a fire compartment.

 

[i=p/u]

Again yous dont know company size and rate. There is always someone who will do it cheaper.
If you had problems do you trust youl get this guy again is the question?

 

[se1landlord]

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it.

I've contacted a couple of landlord in the same block, and neither has mentioned that they had to change their spotlights. One invoice from them lists the faults below.

Now I am concerned that my report might have be done incorrectly. Is it possible for these faults to be unique to a specific flat or would they be related to the original installation?

C2 faults

RCBO does not trip within required time
Works required:
Replace RCBO and retest

(5.2 Sockets for kitchen appliances not fixed or supported
Works required:
To support sockets under kitchen units

5.3 Low insulation results
Works required:
To determine if fault is coming from an appliance or wiring and attempt to repair or provide further recommendations also to then allow appliances to pass PAT test

(5.7 Switch not earthed
Works required:
To reconnect earth and touch up decoration around switch

5.16 b)Spot lights incorrectly connected
Works required:
To reconnect spotlights so that the cable clamps are used and the single insulation is protected inside the enclosure.

FI Socket circuit resistances inconsistent
Works required:
Neutral conductors are not continuous to remove sockets and locate loose cable then touch up decoration if required

FI Hall lights have no power, to
Remove switches and trace source of fault we can not confirm if lights work until power is restored.

 

[i=p/u]

F/R down lights £7 , Led lamp £3 x 21 = £210 (call it £250 if you buy dearer lamps)

£350 days Labour

£600 absolutely tops

even with London rate £900 is a rip off price

He might only fit certain brand £30 each

 

[se1landlord]

F/R down lights £7 , Led lamp £3 x 21 = £210 (call it £250 if you buy dearer lamps)

£350 days Labour

£600 absolutely tops

even with London rate £900 is a rip off price

I've asked for another quote and they came back with £714.49 + vat. ?

 

[Dartlec]

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it.

I've contacted a couple of landlord in the same block, and neither has mentioned that they had to change their spotlights. One invoice from them lists the faults below.

Now I am concerned that my report might have be done incorrectly. Is it possible for these faults to be unique to a specific flat or would they be related to the original installation?

How many flats are there in the block? If it's in a large block then it's likely that they are all the originally installed downlights. It's just possible that yours have been replaced since with inappropriate ones, but that seems unlikely. (have you had the flat since new?)

Is there a management company? If so it may be worth seeing if they can confirm whether the plasterboard ceilings are a fire barrier or not, or whether the flats were built with each flat separated. (Probably won't have a clue, but might be worth asking anyway!)

There may well be benefit in fitting Fire rated downlights anyway of course - but that's a separate issue from being required -

Is it possible to determine the model of the existing lights? To see whether they are already fire rated - it isn't always obvious from the front and not all inspectors will have remove them to check.

To be honest, many electricians won't fancy the job of replacing 21 downlights as it can be tedious and fiddly, so they may be upping the quote to allow for that. There is also an extra demand at the moment because of the 1st April deadline.

You may well find going to a smaller firm (but one still appropriately registered or competent) will get you a better price - just be sure they do know what they are doing and can produce appropriate documentation at the end of the job for your records.

 

[Soi disant]

I've asked for another quote and they came back with £714.49 + vat. ?

How does that quote break down?

So that's now 2 different electricians who've quoted what seems OTT. Anything odd going on, like 15' ceilings?

 

[mattg4321]

It’s unlikely the ceiling will form part of the fire compartment. Very poor design if so.

I had a similar job to do an eicr after a similar report recently. Took downlight out and saw the concrete above the suspended ceiling. No code.

Funny thing is the landlord got me to change the lights anyway and informed the agent that I should be contacted in the first instance for all further work at the flat.

People just want you to be honest most of the time. Even if it costs them money. Most people can smell BS a mile off.

 

[westward10]

It’s unlikely the ceiling will form part of the fire compartment. Very poor design if so.

I had a similar job to do an eicr after a similar report recently. Took downlight out and saw the concrete above the suspended ceiling. No code.

Funny thing is the landlord got me to change the lights anyway and informed the agent that I should be contacted in the first instance for all further work at the flat.

People just want you to be honest most of the time. Even if it costs them money. Most people can smell BS a mile off.

This is how flats are designed concrete compartmentation so this needs to be established before hundreds of pounds are wasted.

 

[se1landlord]

I have spoken to the firm I contacted today. They seem to have a much more professional setup than the first guy and they are super local.

He explained that the quote is for a whole day of work.

 

[Dartlec]

As a note to the observations there is no such thing as an 18th Ed consumer unit.

There must be - Screwfix sell them! ? (Actually, so do CEF disappointingly)

Every flat from around that age I've been in has Tenby branded CUs with LeGrand switchgear.

 

[Zerax]

Ain’t that what Nagy does , just sticks £60 on every job incase he gets a ticket

Probably... I know some companies don't even bother trying to avoid getting them... just put it down as an occupational hazard !

 

[Dartlec]

I have spoken to the firm I contacted today. They seem to have a much more professional setup than the first guy and they are super local.

He explained that the quote is for a whole day of work.

21 downlights might well end up taking a day - might be worth seeing if they will come and look for a proper quote (or even arrange a reasonable callout charge for their time) as they may well be able to determine quickly whether they are needed or not.