Electric boilers - how is this going to work.

[Selfmade]

? Thinking ahead a wee bit here, it looks like lots of people will be switching from gas combi boilers to electric combi boilers over the coming years. Most of the electric boilers seem to be around 12kW, while most of the gas boilers I've seen even in flats and small houses seem to be 30kW plus. So my main question is, how is replacing a 30kW + boiler with a 12kW boiler going to be sufficient to heat the place?

Secondly, what to do about about max demand? Many old domestic properties have 60A or even lower cut-outs, so how does that work with a ~50A boiler? Do we have to get the DNO to upgrade (in my past experience they are very reluctant to do so). And what about other large loads like showers? Do we have to fit some kind of selector switch so only one can be used at a time?

 

[Selfmade]

....Spoken like a true pal of Jeremy...

Jeremy who?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

From personal experience I live in a 2014 apartment, the building is made of wood with a bath stone cladding.
the heating and hot water comes from a community heating system, they burn wood pellets on site and pump water to each apartment where a 'boiler' electric powered on a 16amp breaker reheats it.
my heating/hot water costs me between £20-22 a month.
This system apparently reduces the amount of energy lost in transportation and long cable or pipe runs.
I do think though that it wont be heating as we think of it now but will be a mix of solar powered, power wall to store excess and a modern version of storage heaters.
showers will be electric but there are new ones out there that operate at 20 amps which will be more than sufficient for most people. Think of ovens for years we were almost by habit thinking 40 amp and 10mm now im installing ovens on 20 and even 16amp breakers with 2.5 and even had one with a supplied 1.5mm cable.
things are going to change. necessity being the mother of invention and all that.

 

[Zerax]

If they all had solar panels and storage batteries, that would surely help with the extra load...

That's the ideal solution... as in theory, if sized correctly, you could do away with your grid supply. I worked out the payback period of such a system for my place... but it was >20 years ! So at present, it's cheaper to use the grid supply.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

The fact is that electricity costs 3 times as much as gas. I would never buy a new build without gas for this very reason.

 

[Squid]

Or BS

Just need to work out how to divert that energy from this site to my ecologically climate saving energy bank.

 

[sinewove]

From personal experience I live in a 2014 apartment, the building is made of wood with a bath stone cladding.
the heating and hot water comes from a community heating system, they burn wood pellets on site and pump water to each apartment where a 'boiler' electric powered on a 16amp breaker reheats it.
my heating/hot water costs me between £20-22 a month.
This system apparently reduces the amount of energy lost in transportation and long cable or pipe runs.
I do think though that it wont be heating as we think of it now but will be a mix of solar powered, power wall to store excess and a modern version of storage heaters.
showers will be electric but there are new ones out there that operate at 20 amps which will be more than sufficient for most people. Think of ovens for years we were almost by habit thinking 40 amp and 10mm now im installing ovens on 20 and even 16amp breakers with 2.5 and even had one with a supplied 1.5mm cable.
things are going to change. necessity being the mother of invention and all that.

Gavin,how can a shower drawing 20amps be sufficient compared with a 10kw shower?
Regards,S

 

[PEG]

Gavin,how can a shower drawing 20amps be sufficient compared with a 10kw shower?
Regards,S

....it will be,if you live in the woods,with your 6 mates,and a beautiful fair-haired chick...

 

[Selfmade]

From personal experience I live in a 2014 apartment, the building is made of wood with a bath stone cladding.
the heating and hot water comes from a community heating system, they burn wood pellets on site and pump water to each apartment where a 'boiler' electric powered on a 16amp breaker reheats it.
my heating/hot water costs me between £20-22 a month.
This system apparently reduces the amount of energy lost in transportation and long cable or pipe runs.
I do think though that it wont be heating as we think of it now but will be a mix of solar powered, power wall to store excess and a modern version of storage heaters.
showers will be electric but there are new ones out there that operate at 20 amps which will be more than sufficient for most people. Think of ovens for years we were almost by habit thinking 40 amp and 10mm now im installing ovens on 20 and even 16amp breakers with 2.5 and even had one with a supplied 1.5mm cable.
things are going to change. necessity being the mother of invention and all that.

Sounds fantastic! And very interesting regarding the technology in use. I'm guessing the solutions for new build and retrofit may well be quite different.

 

[Selfmade]

The fact is that electricity costs 3 times as much as gas. I would never buy a new build without gas for this very reason.

Even if the insulation and other efficiency measure meant you were using less than 1/3 of the energy?

 

[PEG]

Jeremy who?

Hi,Corbyn,is the Jeremy i was referring to...

....Just a sarky comment,alluding to the gentleman's rhetoric,regarding how we need to save energy and the planet,by investing in wind,solar,etc...and managing to ignore the enormous amount of energy,concrete,oil,copper,steel,minerals and magnets,such an undertaking,requires

Three of the world's most energy intensive,polluting materials,are in the above list...and no eco device i've seen yet,can be made or used,without them....unless it is an actual windmill...made from recycled timber,and only milling corn...that has had no input from chemicals,or fuel using harvesting equipment...or transport...(see what i mean?)

 

[Selfmade]

Hi,Corbyn,is the Jeremy i was referring to...

....Just a sarky comment,alluding to the gentleman's rhetoric,regarding how we need to save energy and the planet,by investing in wind,solar,etc...and managing to ignore the enormous amount of energy,concrete,oil,copper,steel,minerals and magnets,such an undertaking,requires

Three of the world's most energy intensive,polluting materials,are in the above list...and no eco device i've seen yet,can be made or used,without them....unless it is an actual windmill...made from recycled timber,and only milling corn...that has had no input from chemicals,or fuel using harvesting equipment...or transport...(see what i mean?)

IMHO this is why we should have started the transition decades ago, replacing things like fossil-fueled power stations with renewable alternatives when they reached the end of their lifespan, rather than keeping on building them and then suddenly having to replace them all in one go at huge cost to the planet.

 

[Zerax]

The fact is that electricity costs 3 times as much as gas. I would never buy a new build without gas for this very reason.

Yes... it's true that electricity is about 3 x more than gas on a per kWh basis... however once you factor in boiler efficiency, pipework heat losses, controllability, boiler servicing, breakdown cost etc etc... the gap does narrow quite a bit.

I know of a young lady who lives in a 2 bed flat with no gas... she pays on average £60 per month for electricity... which I reckon will come down to £50 once I've put some decent insulation in the loft. That's not bad really... and the flat was built about 14 years ago to building regs. (which are woefully low standard btw)

IMHO, right now there are two big drawbacks with electric heating... 1) Total lack of sensible, 'smart' controls to retrofit. 2) The nonsense of Economy 7... which, unless you make it way of life or religion, increases your electricity cost !

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Even if the insulation and other efficiency measure meant you were using less than 1/3 of the energy?

Of course. All those measures don't alter the relative costs of gas and electricity.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

I know of a young lady who lives in a 2 bed flat with no gas... she pays on average £60 per month for electricity... which I reckon will come down to £50 once I've put some decent insulation in the loft. That's not bad really... and the flat was built about 14 years ago to building regs. (which are woefully low standard btw)

So if she had and used gas it would be £20 a month, even better.

 

[Zerax]

So if she had and used gas it would be £20 a month, even better.

errr... no
Due to efficiencies, service charges, boiler service and maintenance costs etc etc... it's more like £60 All electric vs. £50 with Gas/Electric... definitely cheaper with gas, but nowhere near the ⅓rd that you see with the basic kWh prices.