Electric field between a source and a sink on a sheet

[jasonben]

Can someone help me with some questions about the picture at Electric field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia?

Is there anything about the composition of sheets that is known to significantly or insignificantly effect the curves representing the electric field between a source and a sink? Are larger curves similar to smaller curves when the distance between the source and the sink is increased - or do they have a different general shape. Is there a general formula for the curves on homogeneous sheets? Is the amount of resistance between the source and the sink directly proportional to the distance between the source and the sink? What are the formulas for the curves between the source and the sink and the total resistance between the source and the sink - if there are general formulas? I suppose that I am asking for a formula of the electric field. How does the amount of current traveling through each curve relate to the shape of each curve?

If the current through one of the curves can be known, is the resistance along this curve directly proportional to the length of the curve? If not, is there a resistance formula that describes this that I can use with Ohm's Law for a curve. Is there a way to define both the current and resistance along any one curve?

 

[plantpot]

yes and no

 

[DPG]

Is it 42?

 

[jasonben]

I noticed when looking at models that when electricity is applied to different locations on a sheet the the current does not go straight from the anode to the cathode. It travels in curves. There are alternative routes that make it easier, but what is effecting these routes? What about the sheet effects this? One person at a different post wrote that it has nothing to do with the resistivity of the sheet - that is how any one sheet specifically opposes the flow of electrons that make up the current. I was wondering if there was anything else about the sheet that might effect these current paths - such as if the sheet was magnetic, where the poles of the magnetic sheet were in relation to the position of the electrical contacts, maybe even the shape and how the molecules making up the sheet were orientated. However, I don't want to think about sheets in which the paths are not symmetrical at this time. I'd like to know the shape of the curves - if there is a mathematical description - and what factors this description includes. I'd also like to know if the total resistance between the source and the sink are directly proportional to the distance between the source and the sink - and what the formula describing resistance between the source and the sink is - if there is one. Does the formula take into consideration the type of material - or actual properties that are shared by different materials?

 

[DPG]

43 then

 

[jasonben]

43 then

Please specify units.

 

[beanzntoast]

He's just having a laugh with you jasonben,he's wrong anyway because its 45

 

[DPG]

If you take into account the normalised Frobisher constant then the curves begin to make more sense. Mind you, I'm not sure who's winding who up here. Daz

 

[zupos40]

I noticed when looking at models that when electricity is applied to different locations on a sheet the the current does not go straight from the anode to the cathode. It travels in curves. There are alternative routes that make it easier, but what is effecting these routes? What about the sheet effects this? One person at a different post wrote that it has nothing to do with the resistivity of the sheet - that is how any one sheet specifically opposes the flow of electrons that make up the current. I was wondering if there was anything else about the sheet that might effect these current paths - such as if the sheet was magnetic, where the poles of the magnetic sheet were in relation to the position of the electrical contacts, maybe even the shape and how the molecules making up the sheet were orientated. However, I don't want to think about sheets in which the paths are not symmetrical at this time. I'd like to know the shape of the curves - if there is a mathematical description - and what factors this description includes. I'd also like to know if the total resistance between the source and the sink are directly proportional to the distance between the source and the sink - and what the formula describing resistance between the source and the sink is - if there is one. Does the formula take into consideration the type of material - or actual properties that are shared by different materials?

Think of it like this if you kicked a football or hit a golf ball would it fly in a straight line, No, it would climb until it started to lose energy then it would arc back to the ground, electric charge act on the same principle.

Think of it also as been hit from the cathode and caught by the anode. it took Maxwell a long time to produce equation to explan principle.

 

[jasonben]

Think of it like this if you kicked a football or hit a golf ball would it fly in a straight line, No, it would climb until it started to lose energy then it would arc back to the ground, electric charge act on the same principle.

Think of it also as been hit from the cathode and caught by the anode. it took Maxwell a long time to produce equation to explan principle.

I've been looking at equations trying to find one that I could use. I looked at some of Maxwell's. I think that what I need is a formula for E - the electric field - a specific equation for the field in a large sheet between two point contacts. I said large sheet because I don't know if the thin ones used in resistors - if some resistors are made of small thin sheets, would have a field that could be described by the same formula. It never occurred to me that the field might most resemble parabolas - out of all possibe shapes, though I don't know of the most accurate formula describing the path of a football. Most of the formulas that I have found relate fields, but I am looking for an actual formula describing E for this particular kind of sheet and these particular kinds of contacts - not how, once E is known, it can be used to calculate other things. Is E going to be different from sheet to sheet?

 

[zupos40]

Most of us on this forum are qualified working sparks, I do believe your question is better suited for the expert on the IET discussion forum best of luck.

 

[tenheads]

i believe the problem only arises on the pyramid intergrater ????!?!/!?

 

[jasonben]

i believe the problem only arises on the pyramid intergrater ????!?!/!?

What is the pyramid integrater?

 

[Steve1412]

Read that wiki link and unfortunately I fell into a coma after the words 'In physics'

 

[DPG]

Ignore pyramid integrators - they do not apply in this case and could confuse.
Assuming Clarke’s Index to be close to infinity, you can express Z in terms of its subordinate roots and then map this to the sheet in question. Never under-estimate the Frobisher Constant though. Daz

 

[senor_fabulous]

It comes down to known physical quantities, size, csa, length, atomic make up of material, temperature, accuracy of measuring equipment, laboratory conditions. The behavior of electrons at the sub atomic level. You should look at the findings of Nils Bohr. Quantum mechanics suggest the the behavior of electrons would follow a square law and not a curve between source and sink.

 

[c.boy]

Laugh my head off!!! Ask someone wi big specs and a white coat!!! and who cares anyway!! sorry ill have to get back to the tardus!!!

 

[chocolate]

I know what you mean !!!! The lines / curves that link the cathode and anode together are ONLY an illustration of an available path that an electron ( or electric current ) will flow between the two. Yes ideally, a straight line between the two is best. But you are assuming there that electrons will leave and enter from those points. In reality, that's nothing like what happens. Thin of a magnet. You have a North pole, but the magnetic field spreads out in all directions. The same applies with electric fields.

There are equations that will allow you to calculate the electric field strength at a point anywhere between the cathode and anode. However, there is no equation that allows you to calculate current flow in relation to the curved lines. They are drawn to illustrate something, and are not factual curves. They do not actually exist. They are drawn to help scientists and engineers understand how it all works.

Forget Maxwells equations. You are moving into a depth of Phyiscs you really want to avoid.

 

[jasonben]

Ignore pyramid integrators - they do not apply in this case and could confuse.
Assuming Clarke’s Index to be close to infinity, you can express Z in terms of its subordinate roots and then map this to the sheet in question. Never under-estimate the Frobisher Constant though. Daz

Can you recommend a site where I can learn more about this - or could you explain it? One thing that I'm also interested in is how resistance varies as a function of distance in large sheets up to two feet by two feet.

It comes down to known physical quantities, size, csa, length, atomic make up of material, temperature, accuracy of measuring equipment, laboratory conditions. The behavior of electrons at the sub atomic level. You should look at the findings of Nils Bohr. Quantum mechanics suggest the the behavior of electrons would follow a square law and not a curve between source and sink.

I'm afraid that if I researched Bohr, I'd have to learn about all of his work before I learned about what I am presently interested in. Maybe that is the only way. If it is useful, more direction would help, however. Is there a qualitative description of what effects the path? Where can I learn more about the square law?

I know what you mean !!!! The lines / curves that link the cathode and anode together are ONLY an illustration of an available path that an electron ( or electric current ) will flow between the two. Yes ideally, a straight line between the two is best. But you are assuming there that electrons will leave and enter from those points. In reality, that's nothing like what happens. Thin of a magnet. You have a North pole, but the magnetic field spreads out in all directions. The same applies with electric fields.

There are equations that will allow you to calculate the electric field strength at a point anywhere between the cathode and anode. However, there is no equation that allows you to calculate current flow in relation to the curved lines. They are drawn to illustrate something, and are not factual curves. They do not actually exist. They are drawn to help scientists and engineers understand how it all works.

Forget Maxwells equations. You are moving into a depth of Phyiscs you really want to avoid.

Would Proxy-Connection: keep-alive Cache-Control: max-age=0 oxy-Connection: keep-alive Cache-Control: max-age=0 u help me find some of those equations for an isotropic sheet? I'd be more interested in something that is dependent on properties and not materials - if there is such an equation.

Would you help me find some of those equations for an isotropic sheet? I'd be more interested in something that is dependent on properties and not materials - if there is such an equation.

 

[Darkwood]

Closing thread - original link expired and thread is 6 yrs old.