Electric radiator, 13A plug?

[Jymbob]

Don't bite my head off...

My mother-in-law has recently had her kitchen redone, and has realised now it's autumn that she needs more heat in there. As it would involve ripping everything up to run pipes for another radiator on the opposite wall to the existing one, she's looking at a wall-mounted electric one, preferably just on a normal 13A plug.

Her central heating is controlled by a Nest thermostat, and so my suggestion was to get a dumb heater and a smart plug, so the Nest can trigger the plug when it switches to and from 'Heat' (via IFTTT).

Most off-the-shelf plug in heaters however tend to come with some software timers etc, which means they're not designed to be switched on and off at the wall (and often won't start up "on" when they're powered up).

My question: is there any reason why she couldn't get a standard "towel-rail" style heater with a 300-500W immersion element and wire it to a plug? Do the regs state it has to be on a switched spur?

I know in a bathroom/dual-fuel environment there are requirements around having RCD protection, but is this true for all heaters?

Thanks.

 

[Spoon]

Would a kickboard heater not do?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Towel rail heaters don't tend to provide enough to efficiently heat a space (they designed to dry and warm your towels). So a 300-500watt heater isn't going to get the place toasty.
Better to look at panel heaters, or maybe a plinth heater
they come in sizes up to 2KW.

You do need to look out for the control aspect, but is you MIL ready to sort out IFTTT/Nest/Alexa stuff?

There's not absolute need for RCD for heaters outside a bathroom, but you may find that the sockets are already RCD protected. Are they?

And heaters are fine on a plug, or FCU. There is no reg that says they should be on an FCU, even in a bathroom. They usually are becuase sockets are not permitted in bathrooms, unless its a very big one!

 

[Pete999]

Don't bite my head off...

My mother-in-law has recently had her kitchen redone, and has realised now it's autumn that she needs more heat in there. As it would involve ripping everything up to run pipes for another radiator on the opposite wall to the existing one, she's looking at a wall-mounted electric one, preferably just on a normal 13A plug.

Her central heating is controlled by a Nest thermostat, and so my suggestion was to get a dumb heater and a smart plug, so the Nest can trigger the plug when it switches to and from 'Heat' (via IFTTT).

Most off-the-shelf plug in heaters however tend to come with some software timers etc, which means they're not designed to be switched on and off at the wall (and often won't start up "on" when they're powered up).

My question: is there any reason why she couldn't get a standard "towel-rail" style heater with a 300-500W immersion element and wire it to a plug? Do the regs state it has to be on a switched spur?

I know in a bathroom/dual-fuel environment there are requirements around having RCD protection, but is this true for all heaters?

Thanks.

Modern Electric Heating | Fischer Future Heat UK - https://www.fischerfutureheat.com/electric-heaters/fischer-elektrostore-heaters/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5qH-kseN3gIVDuWaCh1_hQdFEAAYASAAEgK24fD_BwE
300-500Watt is not a lot of hearing, have a look at the link I have provided, there are of course others on the market, and can easily be found bGoogling "Oil filled Electrical Radiators" hope this info is helpful.

 

[Jymbob]

Thanks guys. The Nest/IFTTT would be setup by me, it's not hard. Basically:
If: Nest temperature drops below 17
Then: Switch on kitchen heater

If: Nest temperature goes above 21
Then: Switch off kitchen heater

or similar.

Thanks for the links to other heaters. The problem she's having is finding something that doesn't look like a squashed car, but also comes without the bells and whistles which would mean it can't be simply powered on/off, hence looking at a towel rail type element.

Suggestions welcome!

 

[Jymbob]

Would a kickboard heater not do?

Good suggestion, but it's the dining side of the room that gets cold, and that's too far from the counters to work.

 

[mhar]

You can get plinth heaters that are fan assisted small radiators but very efficient. If you are able to run from the flow and return of the existing radiator under / around the plinth, you might be able to incorporate one of these. As they are fan assisted they will not rely solely on convection so placement would not be so critical

 

[davesparks]

What kind of radiator is in the room currently?
Can it be changed for a bigger radiator or changed from single panel to double panel etc?

 

[davesparks]

Thanks guys. The Nest/IFTTT would be setup by me, it's not hard. Basically:
If: Nest temperature drops below 17
Then: Switch on kitchen heater

If: Nest temperature goes above 21
Then: Switch off kitchen heater

A nest doesn't give this kind of data out, it provides a simple relay output to switch the heating on.
I can't see how you could balance the heat output of an electric heater with a wet radiator system for this plan to work properly. I think your best option is to alter or extend the existing heating to solve the problem

 

[Baddegg]

Im sure dimplex do some panel heaters that the control module is interchangeable so as you can have the absolute basic on off right upto smart controls....possibly maybe I think....

 

[Dave OCD]

Why not a very simple panel heater with built in 24 hour timer combined with control thermostat. Just put in the times you want it on and how hot you want in and away you go, it needn't be complicated.

 

[rapparee]

Im sure dimplex do some panel heaters that the control module is interchangeable so as you can have the absolute basic on off right upto smart controls....possibly maybe I think....

We used to, but Lot20 meant we had to redesign our heaters for the EU market, they now have intelligent controls etc.


You might still be able to get some old PLXNC stock.

We actually still make No Control heaters for Canada and Scandinavia/Russia.

There is a nice range of Nobo with no controls.

 

[Jymbob]

What kind of radiator is in the room currently?
Can it be changed for a bigger radiator or changed from single panel to double panel etc?

It's a 6ft vertical right by the door to the hallway. It looks lovely, it's just (to my mind) in the wrong place. Can't easily be altered as the room was knocked through into the dining room and it's the wrong side of the old wall (also the cause for the lack of heat - two radiators out, only one back in, and a lot less wall).

A nest doesn't give this kind of data out, it provides a simple relay output to switch the heating on.
I can't see how you could balance the heat output of an electric heater with a wet radiator system for this plan to work properly. I think your best option is to alter or extend the existing heating to solve the problem

To its cloud service it absolutely gives those figures. That's how the app works from outside your house. Link here.
Locally I'm aware it's just sending on/off commands to the HeatLink. I agree balancing might be tricky, but the point is that one half of the room still feels cold when the heating is on. Surely a radiator with a thermostat that's on at the same time as the rest of the system should function no differently to a TRV'd radiator on a normal system?

You might still be able to get some old PLXNC stock.

There is a nice range of Nobo with no controls.

Thanks I'll look out for them.

Back to my original question: If I'm going to be running it off a 13A socket, a quick back of the envelope calculation suggests I'd be wise to not go higher than 2kw?

 

[Taylortwocities]

13A is about 3Kw. But you need to think about what else is on the circuit if you are planning to impose that size load on any circuit.