ELECTRIC TRIPPING

[Buffyrose]

Hi - for those that like a riddle.

Washing machine (4.5 years old), suddenly tripped electrics, mid cycle.
I manually emptied machine, opened door, removed washing, pulled out machine to access plug.
Plug is fitted to an adapter (it has to to project past the outfall which is located immediately below), adapter goes into a single socket.
Socket has been tested OK with a hairdryer
Adapter has been tested OK in another socket, with hairdryer
Washing machine OK in another socket with an extension lead
Alternative adapter used in original socket, with hairdryer, all OK
All sockets used have fused switches above worktop and they all work.

The only scenario that won't work is the WM in its original configuration, ie, plug, adapter, socket. - trips the electrics on that fuse everytime.

The grey lead and plug is from the WM. The rectangular vent pipe underneath waste is an ex-tumble drier vent.

Other info - everything has worked fine for 5 years. There doesn't appear to be an earth from the house. House was upgraded 15 years ago so everything was new then. (not by us). There is a garage some 20 yards away, which takes its feed from the house, and there is an earth rod going into the ground outside the garage.

I know nothing about electrics, but logic dictates that this scenario can't be happening. What do you think?

Thanks everyone.

 

[Buffyrose]

The washing machine may not be a write off, if it does turn out to be where the fault lies. If it has been used and abused daily for 5 years, then perhaps its not worth paying someone to investigate. However, if you live alone and only use it a couple of times a week, and it is in good condition, then might be worth getting an someone who does appliance repair out to have a look. Could just be a small leak in a pipe thats got into an electrical componant. Or a bad element.

Ah, thanks for that. It certainly shouldn't be past its sell by date - not over-used.

 

[ruston]

The washing machine may not be a write off, if it does turn out to be where the fault lies. If it has been used and abused daily for 5 years, then perhaps its not worth paying someone to investigate. However, if you live alone and only use it a couple of times a week, and it is in good condition, then might be worth getting an someone who does appliance repair out to have a look. Could just be a small leak in a pipe thats got into an electrical componant. Or a bad element.

And just as easy a clogged powder drawer letting water leak over and into the machine .
It does not take much to cause problems.

 

[static zap]

the 17th edition kettle, if you remember that thread.

Take great care with the Metal cased posh kettle , if the Earth connection
has failed in the adapter !
..It has no LEDs like a socket tester ..But you may light up!
(technical = thinking Class I with mains input filter appliances-ONLY)

 

[Buffyrose]

And just as easy a clogged powder drawer letting water leak over and into the machine .
It does not take much to cause problems.

OK, thanks for your ideas.

 

[Buffyrose]

Hi - for those that like a riddle.

Washing machine (4.5 years old), suddenly tripped electrics, mid cycle.
I manually emptied machine, opened door, removed washing, pulled out machine to access plug.
Plug is fitted to an adapter (it has to to project past the outfall which is located immediately below), adapter goes into a single socket.
Socket has been tested OK with a hairdryer
Adapter has been tested OK in another socket, with hairdryer
Washing machine OK in another socket with an extension lead
Alternative adapter used in original socket, with hairdryer, all OK
All sockets used have fused switches above worktop and they all work.

The only scenario that won't work is the WM in its original configuration, ie, plug, adapter, socket. - trips the electrics on that fuse everytime.

The grey lead and plug is from the WM. The rectangular vent pipe underneath waste is an ex-tumble drier vent.

Other info - everything has worked fine for 5 years. There doesn't appear to be an earth from the house. House was upgraded 15 years ago so everything was new then. (not by us). There is a garage some 20 yards away, which takes its feed from the house, and there is an earth rod going into the ground outside the garage.

I know nothing about electrics, but logic dictates that this scenario can't be happening. What do you think?

Thanks everyone.

FOLLOW UP - Electrician coming tomorrow - dare I ask ......

..... the actual situation now is this: The washing machine will work perfectly in any socket with an RCD extension lead but not directly into the socket, or through an adapter or with a non-RCD extension. So, why does it work if I add another 'layer' of RCD. I'm just interested to understand. Thanks

 

[James]

it sounds baffling.

the only thing I can think of is, the rcd extension lead might have a faulty earth, i.e. it is not connected correctly or wire is broken.

this would allow the machine to run without tripping the rcd at the distribution board if there was a live to earth or a neutral to earth fault within the machine.

If this is the case, the extension lead could be causing a dangerous fault to be undetected.

please avoid using the machine in this manner just in case.

Also, ask the electrician to test your rcd extension lead whilst he/she is on site.

 

[Buffyrose]

it sounds baffling.

the only thing I can think of is, the rcd extension lead might have a faulty earth, i.e. it is not connected correctly or wire is broken.

this would allow the machine to run without tripping the rcd at the distribution board if there was a live to earth or a neutral to earth fault within the machine.

If this is the case, the extension lead could be causing a dangerous fault to be undetected.

please avoid using the machine in this manner just in case.

Also, ask the electrician to test your rcd extension lead whilst he/she is on site.

Wow, that's a fantastic bit of advice - 2 fold - re the washing machine and the lead. Thank you very much.

 

[James]

it fits the description of the fault, also your fault finding seems to match up with the symtoms of what I have described.

however, it is a remote diagnostic and there could be other reasons, it is by no means a definitive diagnosis.

I and quite a few others will be looking forward to hearing what the electrician finds tomorrow.

p.s. you never mentioned who was coming to look at it, please remember there are a lot of good electricians on the forum that provide free advice, we also have to make some money during the day so it is always worth putting up a post requesting an electrician when you need one.

You wont get me because I don't do domestic work, but i am quite sure that a couple of other members are almost as good as I am!!!!

Please let us know what is found.

 

[Buffyrose]

it fits the description of the fault, also your fault finding seems to match up with the symtoms of what I have described.

however, it is a remote diagnostic and there could be other reasons, it is by no means a definitive diagnosis.

I and quite a few others will be looking forward to hearing what the electrician finds tomorrow.

p.s. you never mentioned who was coming to look at it, please remember there are a lot of good electricians on the forum that provide free advice, we also have to make some money during the day so it is always worth putting up a post requesting an electrician when you need one.

You wont get me because I don't do domestic work, but i am quite sure that a couple of other members are almost as good as I am!!!!

Please let us know what is found.


Ha Ha James - before I read your reply today I was going to ask you if you could come and help - you're the electrical expert everyone should use. You were spot on. And I didn't know you could find electricians through this forum.

The WM had a live earth leak (think I've got that right) and the 'safety' RCD lead had no earth (don't know what that means either). First thing he said was - 'don't use that WM'. Appliances are not his area anymore, but it used to be, having 30 years experience, so he kindly looked at the WM too and found a faulty capacitor. He'll be back to move the socket so from now on, although it wasn't implicated, at least I can ditch the adapter too.

Thanks again from a safe household.

it fits the description of the fault, also your fault finding seems to match up with the symtoms of what I have described.

however, it is a remote diagnostic and there could be other reasons, it is by no means a definitive diagnosis.

I and quite a few others will be looking forward to hearing what the electrician finds tomorrow.

p.s. you never mentioned who was coming to look at it, please remember there are a lot of good electricians on the forum that provide free advice, we also have to make some money during the day so it is always worth putting up a post requesting an electrician when you need one.

You wont get me because I don't do domestic work, but i am quite sure that a couple of other members are almost as good as I am!!!!

Please let us know what is found.

Ha Ha James - before I read your reply today I was going to ask you if you could come and help - you're the electrical expert everyone should use. You were spot on. And I didn't know you could find electricians through this forum.

The WM had a live earth leak (think I've got that right) and the 'safety' RCD lead had no earth (don't know what that means either). First thing he said was - 'don't use that WM'. Appliances are not his area anymore, but it used to be, having 30 years experience, so he kindly looked at the WM too and found a faulty capacitor. He'll be back to move the socket so from now on, although it wasn't implicated, at least I can ditch the adapter too.

Thanks again from a safe household.

 

[Wilko]

and the 'safety' RCD lead had no earth (don't know what that means either).

Hi - that means it’s not safe to use and it should be cut up.
Glad it’s sorted for you now .

 

[James]

Ha Ha James - before I read your reply today I was going to ask you if you could come and help - you're the electrical expert everyone should use. You were spot on. And I didn't know you could find electricians through this forum.

The WM had a live earth leak (think I've got that right) and the 'safety' RCD lead had no earth (don't know what that means either). First thing he said was - 'don't use that WM'. Appliances are not his area anymore, but it used to be, having 30 years experience, so he kindly looked at the WM too and found a faulty capacitor. He'll be back to move the socket so from now on, although it wasn't implicated, at least I can ditch the adapter too.

Thanks again from a safe household.

Glad you got it sorted.

I am no more of an expert than a lot of the guys and girls on here.
Sounds like you have found a good spark there, not all of us are great at fault finding.

Worth considering that in any Comercial premises , extension leads and appliances need to be regularly tested to ensure they are safe for continued use.

It is not a requirement in people’s own households but your experience has highlighted just how easy it is to have a dangerous (extension lead) being used and although unlikley it is possible that it is used with an appliance that also has a fault that together could lead to a nasty injury.

 

[DPG]

Great result, thanks for letting us know. Just goes to show how there can be hidden latent faults just waiting to show up!

 

[Buffyrose]

Hi - that means it’s not safe to use and it should be cut up.
Glad it’s sorted for you now .

Gone in the bin! Thanks
[automerge]1581760687[/automerge]

Glad you got it sorted.

I am no more of an expert than a lot of the guys and girls on here.
Sounds like you have found a good spark there, not all of us are great at fault finding.

Worth considering that in any Comercial premises , extension leads and appliances need to be regularly tested to ensure they are safe for continued use.

It is not a requirement in people’s own households but your experience has highlighted just how easy it is to have a dangerous (extension lead) being used and although unlikley it is possible that it is used with an appliance that also has a fault that together could lead to a nasty injury.

Actually he said I'd done the hard work in finding the fault (sort of - all I knew was what was causing the problem) - he is brilliant. But what he also said was, domestic householders should test their electrics every month with the test button. I repeated ' every month' and he said yes. Not many of us will, but at least if we do it once a year its better than never.

 

[telectrix]

Gone in the bin! Thanks
[automerge]1581760687[/automerge]


Actually he said I'd done the hard work in finding the fault (sort of - all I knew was what was causing the problem) - he is brilliant. But what he also said was, domestic householders should test their electrics every month with the test button. I repeated ' every month' and he said yes. Not many of us will, but at least if we do it once a year its better than never.

IET recommend every 6 months, used to be 3 months. 6 months is logicalas you can test when you put the clocks back/forward. you need to reset the clocks anyway after the power is interrupted. personally, i test ours once a month

 

[Buffyrose]

IET recommend every 6 months, used to be 3 months. 6 months is logicalas you can test when you put the clocks back/forward. you need to reset the clocks anyway after the power is interrupted. personally, i test ours once a month

Wow - amazing what I've learned.