electrical condition report

[legepe]

Hi everyone
Ive just had an electrical condition report conducted on a mixed-use property, and I am extremely surprised that after the last report 5 years ago (also report was carried out on flat independently on 11/11/2021) - were both tests passed, so many issues have now been listed
Is it simply the regulations over the past 5 years have changed so much? Or is this possibly a case where the company testing is simply listing things that are not completely necessary?
My questions are relating mainly to:
Are the current regs now stating it necessary within a commercial property (shop/office) to have RCD protection on all circuits or can some or all of them be fused?
Are the current regs now stating to have standard light fittings in bathrooms replaced with a more modern/different type?
Is it necessary to list things that are not part of their physical findings and report: ie lack of smoke/heat detectors in commercial properties? Or make recommendations to contact fire brigade/council?
See attached reports with pics for more info
Any advice very welcome
Thanks
legepe
Ground floor (shop/office)
1 No surge protection to installation C3
2 No RCD protection to any circuits on installation C2
3 Damaged socket on dado trunking in office C2
4 Cable spurred off socket ring circuit at consumer unit C3
5 Circuit 4 has two conductors in one overcurrent device so no discrimination if fault occurs C3
6 Conductors not identified to some lighting circuit C3
7 CPC in plastic back boxes are just oversleeved not terminated C3
8 CPC not in back box in DADO trunking and wires understrain when unscrew light switch (See photo) C2
9 Fan not working in toilet C3
10 Access to work on consumer units is poor with cupboard and cables obstructing access C3
11 Light fittings in suspended ceiling in main office poorly installed basic insulation visible outside enclosure (see photo) C2
12 There is an old dist board that has a ring circuit ipossible socket circuit above the suspended ceiling recommend circuit to be isolated (see photo) C3
13 IP Rating not met on bottom of dist board 1 and 3 (see photo) C2
14 Unable to locate termination of main protective bonding conductor to water service FI
15 No mains operated smoke detector x2 Note
16 No mains operated heat alarm in kitchen Note
17 Recommend seek advice from local fire officer/council regarding fire detection between groundfloor & firstfloor
First floor (2 bed)
1 No surge protection to installation C3
2 Consumer unit non compliant with amendment 3 C3
3 Circuit 5 has two conductors in one overcurrent protective device so no discrimination if fault occurs C3
4 No continuity on neutrals (rn) on kitchen ring circuit FI
5 Decorative switches X2 not earthed correctly reliant on back box (see photo) C3
6 Bathroom light fitting old 2d style masking tape around base - require new fitting (see photo) C2
7 Bathroom lighting not RCD protected and no supplementary bonding to bathroom C2
8 No rcd protection to socket outlet at cooker control unit C2
9 Circuits 1-5 have no RCD protection C3
10 Chrome socket in kitchen is damaged C2
11 Cables buried less than 50mm in walls not RCD protected C3
12 Kitchen sockets overcurrent protective device has 3 cables in so one is a spur off C3
13 IP Rating not met on bottom of isolator near cut out see photo C2
14 Ten months left on operational guarantee for smoke alarms recommend replacement Note
15 No mains operated heat alarm in kitchen Note
16 No mains operated carbon monoxide detector near boiler Note
17 Recommend seek advice from local fire officer/council regarding fire detection between groundfloor & firstfloor Note

 

[littlespark]

That’s some list.

Although, yes, nowadays most circuits require rcd protection, those could all be a C3, but highly recommend upgrading there. Especially if tenants or members of public/ staff use it.
There hasn’t been much change between current regs and those of 5 years ago…. But the inspector may decide to grade things a little stricter, if they believe there are safety issues beyond just black and white regulations.

The broken socket fronts are a c2, they need replaced as it is a safety issue.

Unterminated cpc I would also C2, as they could float into the back of a live connection… A secondary fault, like a loose cpc back at the board, and everything tied to that cpc becomes live…. Including metal socket fronts.

Things like basic isolation outside enclosure is valid, and should have been picked up on previous reports. Since above false ceiling and out of reach, then c3 rather than c2. C2 if normally accessible.

Spurring off at OCPD is no code at all (item 12 above) and is perfectly standard practice. Unless the spur is supplying more than one point with no further fuse down.

There are more points, but I’m sure others will suggest.

 

[telectrix]

looks a pretty thorough and fair report to me. obviously not a £50 drive by. previous report was probably too lenient by a lazy spark.

 

[legepe]

Thanks for replies!

I dont have any problems if this report is completely fair, its just Ive had a well established company do report 5 years ago, and then an independant electrician do the flat in 11/11/21 and both passed. so for this company to flag up so many problems i would think I have some rights to question what they are telling me

After looking in more detail Ive made comments on what they have listed: Any further comments on these are very much welcome

Ground floor (shop/office)
1 No surge protection to installation C3 - NOT IMPORTANT
2 No RCD protection to any circuits on installation C2 - IS IT REG'S REQUIREMENT TO HAVE RCD'S
3 Damaged socket on dado trunking in office C2 - OK NEEDS FIXING
4 Cable spurred off socket ring circuit at consumer unit C3 - OK NO BIG DEAL
5 Circuit 4 has two conductors in one overcurrent device so no discrimination if fault occurs C3 - OK I WOULD THINK ITS NO BIG DEAL
6 Conductors not identified to some lighting circuit C3 - OK NO BIG DEAL
7 CPC in plastic back boxes are just oversleeved not terminated C3 - OK NO BIG DEAL
8 CPC not in back box in DADO trunking and wires understrain when unscrew light switch (See photo) C2 - OK? NOT SURE?
9 Fan not working in toilet C3 - OK NEEDS REPLACING
10 Access to work on consumer units is poor with cupboard and cables obstructing access C3 - OK IT COULD BE BETTER LOCATION
11 Light fittings in suspended ceiling in main office poorly installed basic insulation visible outside enclosure (see photo) C2 THIS IS NOT IN AN ACCESSABLE LOCATION - IS THIS NECCESSARY?
12 There is an old dist board that has a ring circuit ipossible socket circuit above the suspended ceiling recommend circuit to be isolated (see photo) C3 - OK
13 IP Rating not met on bottom of dist board 1 and 3 (see photo) C2 - OK NEEDS FIXING
14 Unable to locate termination of main protective bonding conductor to water service FI IS THIS AN ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT AND STRANGE WHY ITS NEVER BEEN PICKED UP ON PREVIOUS REPORTS
15 No mains operated smoke detector x2 Note - IS THIS REG REQUIREMENT
16 No mains operated heat alarm in kitchen Note - IS THIS REG REQUIREMENT
17 Recommend seek advice from local fire officer/council regarding fire detection between groundfloor & firstfloor - IS THIS REG REQUIREMENT

First floor (2 bed)
1 No surge protection to installation C3 - NOT IMPORTANT
2 Consumer unit non compliant with amendment 3 C3 - OK ITS A PLASTIC UNIT
3 Circuit 5 has two conductors in one overcurrent protective device so no discrimination if fault occurs C3 - OK NO BIG DEAL
4 No continuity on neutrals (rn) on kitchen ring circuit FI - IMPORTANT NEEDS RECTIFYING
5 Decorative switches X2 not earthed correctly reliant on back box (see photo) C3 - OK NO BIG DEAL
6 Bathroom light fitting old 2d style masking tape around base - require new fitting (see photo) C2 - PERFECTLY SERVICABLE LIGHT FOR BATHROOM, DONT KNOW WHY ITS BEEN GIVEN C2?
7 Bathroom lighting not RCD protected and no supplementary bonding to bathroom C2 - ALL CIRCUITS IN FLAT ARE THROUGH RCD'S?
8 No rcd protection to socket outlet at cooker control unit C2 - ALL CIRCUITS IN FLAT ARE THROUGH RCD'S?
9 Circuits 1-5 have no RCD protection C3 - ALL CIRCUITS IN FLAT ARE THROUGH RCD'S?
10 Chrome socket in kitchen is damaged C2 - OK NEEDS REPLACING
11 Cables buried less than 50mm in walls not RCD protected C3 - ALL CIRCUITS IN FLAT ARE THROUGH RCD'S?
12 Kitchen sockets overcurrent protective device has 3 cables in so one is a spur off C3 - NOT SURE?
13 IP Rating not met on bottom of isolator near cut out see photo C2 - THERE IS ONE NEXT TO BOILER
14 Ten months left on operational guarantee for smoke alarms recommend replacement Note - OK THEY WILL BE REPLACED
15 No mains operated heat alarm in kitchen Note - IS THIS REG REQUIREMENT?
16 No mains operated carbon monoxide detector near boiler Note - IS THIS REG REQUIREMENT?
17 Recommend seek advice from local fire officer/council regarding fire detection between groundfloor & firstfloor Note - IS THIS REG REQUIREMENT?

 

[davesparks]

My opinion is:

1 No surge protection to installation C3

Ok

2 No RCD protection to any circuits on installation C2

Normally this would be a C3 and only for those circuits which require it, not all circuits. Unless RCDs are required for fault protection.

3 Damaged socket on dado trunking in office C2

Ok

4 Cable spurred off socket ring circuit at consumer unit C3

Nothing wrong with a spur from the CU

5 Circuit 4 has two conductors in one overcurrent device so no discrimination if fault occurs C3

Nothing wrong with 2 conductors in one device.

6 Conductors not identified to some lighting circuit C3

OK assuming this means coloured sleeving to identify switched lives etc.

7 CPC in plastic back boxes are just oversleeved not terminated C3

Not a problem if it is just one CPC and nothing needs to be connected to it.

8 CPC not in back box in DADO trunking and wires understrain when unscrew light switch (See photo) C2

Eh?

9 Fan not working in toilet C3

Not really a concern on the EICR but you'd normally add it as a note.

10 Access to work on consumer units is poor with cupboard and cables obstructing access C3

Ok

11 Light fittings in suspended ceiling in main office poorly installed basic insulation visible outside enclosure (see photo) C2

Ok

12 There is an old dist board that has a ring circuit ipossible socket circuit above the suspended ceiling recommend circuit to be isolated (see photo) C3

Eh?

13 IP Rating not met on bottom of dist board 1 and 3 (see photo) C2

Ok

14 Unable to locate termination of main protective bonding conductor to water service FI

Ok

15 No mains operated smoke detector x2 Note

6 No mains operated heat alarm in kitchen Note

Not part of an EICR.

17 Recommend seek advice from local fire officer/council regarding fire detection between groundfloor & firstfloor
First floor (2 bed)

Not part of an EICR

 

[littlespark]

I’ll try again.

1. No SPD. New regs tell us we must fit them unless customer declines in writing… but in an existing installation, it is just a recommended improvement. (C3)
They wouldn’t be in the regs 5 years ago, so wouldn’t be mentioned in previous reports. Come to think of it, are SPDs only for “dwellings”?? Not required for a commercial premises.

2. In new works, we must fit RCDs, but on an existing installation, it is generally a C3 (recommend improvement)

3. Yes. Defo C2. Replace it.

4. No code at all. Not even a C3. You can spur off at any point of a ring circuit including at the OCPD, as long as the spur itself is only to a single point and not feeding spurs off spurs

5. Is this the lighting? Not ideal, angree with an C3. Doesn’t mean it HAS to be fixed. and 17 lights off one circuit seems a lot when there’s spare ways in the board.

6. Does this mean identifying switch wires behind switches? Agree C3,

7. Simple fix with a connector.

8. Not sure what this means either. Is the cpc connected to something in the back box or floating free? The dado trunking is just that… TRUNKING. The cables could be single cores within containment such as this, so I don’t think that should be coded at all unless it’s not connected to anything.
The cables to the switch shouldn’t be under strain, so yes, that is a C2.

9. Agree C3… but important to be repaired, not just left.

10. Access to equipment. A problem for every electrician on a daily basis. C3. Accessibility is one thing, but further works that make access even more difficult is just bad design.

11. I did say earlier that it would be classed as “out of reach” but anyone working on or above the ceiling could damage the basic insulation and there’s a possibility of ceiling grid becoming live…. I’m going for C2 now. Why they didn’t use a proper plug/ socket connector and take flex into the fitting???

12. Is this dis board still live?

13. Yep, C2. The hole looks quite large.

14. Yes it is a requirement…. But thorough testing can prove if the bonding conductor is attached to the pipe, even if it can’t be visually verified.

15, 16 and 17 are more for the fire safety rather than electrical regulations….. but it is a very good idea to get them done anyway.
Might not even need to be mains operated. Many smoke alarm manufacturers offer a 10 year battery powered product.


As for the flat:

1. As above. C3. Only if you want to add one

2. Yes, C3…. But why mention amendment 3? That was a thing with the 17th edition, but we’re now on 18th, amendment 2. An “amendment 3” metal consumer unit was simply a marketing ploy by manufacturers

3. Doesn’t need fixed as a priority, but be worth looking into.

4. Definitely. Treat this FI as a C2. Lack of continuity could mean a loose connection causing arcing and a hotspot. Check behind any cracked sockets.

5. C3, but really should be sorted. Just a link between back box earth and switch earth.

6. What is the masking tape hiding? If it’s completely holding the fitting together, then yes, that is a C2. Replace it.

7. C2. Circuits 1,2,3,4 and 5 are not rcd protected according to the circuit chart on the report. It would have been a C3 if bonding was in place.

8. C3. As above regarding circuits 1 to 5

9. As above…. But why code this C3, and item 8 a C2??

10. Yes. C2

11. Circuits 1 to 5 again

12. No code… it’s a spur of a ring.

13. Don’t know. Can’t see where it means.

14. No code, but right to point it out

15, 16 and 17…. Not part of electrical report, but right to be pointed out.


Overall, there are several issues here that do need addressed, and some are indeed potentially dangerous.

 

[loz2754]

are SPDs only for “dwellings”?? Not required for a commercial premises.

They most certainly are required for commercial premises.

 

[littlespark]

They most certainly are required for commercial premises.

I was just double guessing myself. Was a lot to cover in one message.

 

[loz2754]

I was just double guessing myself. Was a lot to cover in one message.

Indeed. My apologies for jumping on the one bit of your post that I didn't agree with.

 

[baldelectrician]

Not going to go through everything

RCD's are a good idea - they were mandaory in the old pre-fabs years ago as they help prevent fires. They also save lives and properties

Surge protection- I would recommend as you will have electronic items in the shop and they are prone to surges

The C2 for lack of RCD protection in the bathroom is warranted as there is no supplimentary bonding present

I would also code the shop lights as a C2 as the regs say exposed insulation, not exposed insulation that is not out of reach

If I were you I would ditch the other sparks and keep this one as they seem professional

 

[baldelectrician]

This is also on a landlord forum I frequent, see link

Electrical condition report? - LandlordZONE Forums

Hi everyone Ive just had an electrical condition report conducted on a mixed-use property, and I am extremely surprised that after the last report 5 years ago - were it passed, so many issues have now been listed Is it simply the regulations over the past 5 years have changed so much? Or is this...

forums.landlordzone.co.uk

 

[MJPD29]

Some of the points should have been picked up by previous people doing the testing. Sounds like this is a thorough report. Not everything is mandatory to be done, but plenty of it is.