Electrical fault - who pays?

[keiron12]

I have recently had an investigation into my electricity meter by Scottish Power because I did not agree with a bill. To cut a long story short, I am being charged for using over 100kwh/day despite the fact I live alone and am regularly away. The meter was found to be working within acceptable boundaries and I now face a bill of £5651.93.

Given that it is not a meter problem, I guess it must be a wiring problem and, given the level of usage, think it is most likely to be a fault with either the thermostat controlling my underfloor heating or a wiring fault. The dramatic usage increase has occurred since I had the underfloor heating installed in my living room and, while I am aware these systems use a great deal of electricity, have still seen a huge electricity usage when I have been away and the system 'off'.

What I am asking is, am I liable for this usage when it is the result of a fault? If the fault is with the thermometer, can I sue the manufacturer? If the fault is with the wiring, do I have a claim against the electrician who fitted it?

Many thanks.

 

[i=p/u]

just say get real how can a single person use this, unless you have massive canibis/pot/weed/cack farm you not mentioning.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You are of course liable, for the usage, as to whether you could sue anybody, will depend on where the fault (if there is one) lies.
You would have to have the fault rectified, and then compare the useage before and after, and then persue whomever you deem to be responsible.
Generally, if the fault is due to faulty equipment you would persue the installer, and it would be up to them to persue the manufacturer.

 

[keiron12]

Funnily enough, that is exactly what I said! A breakdown of the readings, provided by Scottish Power, shows that there was actually a period between 11/1/10 and 24/2/10 where my average consumption was 549kwh/day!! Ironically, I was away skiing for a week during that period!

 

[telectrix]

first, switch everything off and then see if there is current flowing. you might find you are supplying next door. if you are away a lot, have they tapped in somewhere?

 

[i=p/u]

strange 1

 

[IQ Electrical]

Funnily enough, that is exactly what I said! A breakdown of the readings, provided by Scottish Power, shows that there was actually a period between 11/1/10 and 24/2/10 where my average consumption was 549kwh/day!! Ironically, I was away skiing for a week during that period!

That's an average of 100A or 23 KW per hour in a 24 hour period, serious load in a domestic situation!

Your underfloor heating would be more similar to that of a football pitch to hit those levels of consumption!

As Telectrix has mentioned, you're either generously donating or the meter has been misread or has an intermittent fault.

 

[Octopus]

Buy an Owl meter (or similar) and then you can find out what is using the power by turning things off.

Having said that the consumption looks awfully high!

 

[keiron12]

Thanks guys..I have switched my consumer unit off and the meter stops spinning - I'm not supplying anyone else. I did buy an Owl meter a while back, but couldn't get it over the insulation on the wire in or out of my meter- guessed it was a bit thicker than normal because the meter is outside.

 

[telectrix]

Thanks guys..I have switched my consumer unit off and the meter stops spinning - I'm not supplying anyone else. I did buy an Owl meter a while back, but couldn't get it over the insulation on the wire in or out of my meter- guessed it was a bit thicker than normal because the meter is outside.

if your supply has been tapped. it will be after the CU. if its a terraced or a semi, look in the attic.

 

[keiron12]

I actually had a bill, as the result of an actual reading, back in Jan 2010. Because the consumption was so high, I took my own reading, which showed a much lower read and was in line with previous usage - Scottish Power accepted my read and disregarded that of the agent who read it. Due to confusion over the meters (serial number on my bill does not match that on the meter) it looks like the reading Ive provided was based on my neighbour's meter. After Scot Power accepted my read, I thought no more about it, assuming that if there was any argument, they wouldn't have accepted my reading and would have contacted me.

 

[keiron12]

I switched the CU off for 5 days when I was away and there was 0 change in the meter read - can I assume I am not being tapped? I am on the top floor and the only one with access to the attic anyway.

 

[oldtimer]

First of all switch everything off in the house but not the fuseboard look at your meter if it is still spinning away then switch off each circuit breaker one at a time until it stops (also look out for it slowing down) when you track it down to a circuit breaker or even 2 see what they are supplying ie 2 underfloor heationg circuit if thats the case then switch them back on meter will start spinning then go to the room thermostat(s) and turn them down to say 10 degrees then check the meter if still spinning then your controls for the heating has a wiring problem.
Mind I hate saying this but there are sparks out their who are not offay with wiring outwith the domestic fuseboard circuit so hopfully this is not the case

 

[keiron12]

Thanks oldtimer, I have already done this and confirmed that it is the circuit supplying the u/f heating that is at fault. Unfortunately, the same circuit supplies all my sockets!

 

[telectrix]

still think you may be tapped off that circuit.

 

[telectrix]

That's an average of 100A or 23 KW per hour in a 24 hour period, serious load in a domestic situation!

Your underfloor heating would be more similar to that of a football pitch to hit those levels of consumption!

As Telectrix has mentioned, you're either generously donating or the meter has been misread or has an intermittent fault.

that's 100A. can't be right.

 

[chiplard]

I would get a qualified registered sparky to do a full inspection of your wiring, allow him access to anything he needs to, under floorboards etc.

If he finds anything then get him to write a detailed report of what he finds.

If it is a tap then someone will be in a lot of trouble and Scottish Power might apportion the usage to that person.

If it is faulty equipment and you have details of the installer/manufacturer then go down that road.

But firstly you definately need a report from a qualified electrician to back you up.

Let us know what happens with this, would be quite interested!!

 

[Octopus]

How about doing daily readings for a couple of weeks to see if there is any pattern?

 

[i=p/u]

move house

 

[IQ Electrical]

move house

Before he pays the bill?

 

[i=p/u]

im no spark and id say you getting hacked, probably have cameras and all on ya, so they know to knock off when they see you snoopin round your own home

 

[IQ Electrical]

im no spark and id say you getting hacked, probably have cameras and all on ya, so they know to knock off when they see you snoopin round your own home

And your phone will be bugged and a tracking device attached to your vehicle, just leave, leave now while you still can!!!!



Or do a 7-day load monitoring.

 

[j.mawer]

100kwh/day = about 4kw all day. How big is your underfloor heating (or room with it in)? Mat could be say 200W/m so a 4.25mx4.25m mat (BIG) would use 3.6kw. Without knowing more about the setup its difficult to know if that is your scenario. So in principle it could be just the underfloor heating
So
1) Check what was installed to see how big/what power it is
2) Switch the underfloor off and make sure that the meter slows right down.

3) Check the timer on the thermostat if it has one as it sounds like its on all the time
4) Check the temperature on the thermosat as it sounds like the floor can't get to that temperature

If its programmed wrong then fix it, if not then get someone to look at it as it sounds wrong and like its wired to be always on which would be bad! In that scenario I'd have words with the installer

 

[bugsy]

Where abouts are you , we have a micro vip which we could let you borrow ( but we would install it !)

 

[nickblake]

thats alot of juice ive come accros this befor when they changed the meter in a house started costing the guy £30.00 per day it was due to a billing error ask them to monitor your supply and speak to citiezens advice ,nobdys being growing some unusual plants in your loft have they ( i am joking there)

 

[i=p/u]

heeeee

 

[Marvo]

As already mentioned, I would get a qualified electrician in with a view to testing the underfloor heating controls, also investigate if you're unknowingly supplying a neighbor and finally get him to fit that OwlMonitor that you already have so you can run a long comparison test with your billing meter.

Finally you say the meter number is incorrect on your bill so it could be as simple as you're getting billed for your neighbor's consumption and he's getting billed for yours. I would engage the DNO further about this possibility.

 

[keiron12]

I do have a relatively large area heated by the underfloor heating, but have set all thermostats to switch on only when required ie bedroom and bathroom in morning and living room and kitchen come on at 5-10pm.

Scottish Power did install a check meter for 2 weeks to confirm it wasn't a meter fault.

I've disconnected the thermostat in the living room as I had ruled out other rooms, and have noticed the meter slowing significantly since. Could it be a fault with the thermostat? If so, would I have any claim against the manufacturer/spark who installed it?

Thanks guys for all your comments and advice.

 

[Marvo]

You would still need someone qualified to assess the operation of the suspect system and report on the installation. Once you have verified if there is a problem and what that problem is then you're in the realms of your local consumer law. I can'T comment on the legal side as I'm not in the UK.

 

[oldtimer]

I do have a relatively large area heated by the underfloor heating, but have set all thermostats to switch on only when required ie bedroom and bathroom in morning and living room and kitchen come on at 5-10pm.

Scottish Power did install a check meter for 2 weeks to confirm it wasn't a meter fault.

I've disconnected the thermostat in the living room as I had ruled out other rooms, and have noticed the meter slowing significantly since. Could it be a fault with the thermostat? If so, would I have any claim against the manufacturer/spark who installed it?

Thanks guys for all your comments and advice.

As I said before you dont need to disconnect the thermostat(s) just turn them all down this will highlight what what ones are working also if there is 4 stats and 4 rooms they should all be wired the same so check this out as well because if on room is wired to the NC contact intead of the NO the the stat will work in reverse ie turn it down to 10 degrees and the heating stays on

 

[keiron12]

As I said before you dont need to disconnect the thermostat(s) just turn them all down this will highlight what what ones are working also if there is 4 stats and 4 rooms they should all be wired the same so check this out as well because if on room is wired to the NC contact intead of the NO the the stat will work in reverse ie turn it down to 10 degrees and the heating stays on

You may be on to something here - reason I removed the thermostat is because I had turned the temp down, but the floor was still warm the net day. What do you mean by 'wired to the NC contact instead of the NO'?

Here's a pic of the thermostat:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1253640/photo.JPG

 

[gnselectricals]

Have you tried completely turning off the UFH as it sounds like it's in set back mode where the stat doesn't completely turn the heating off but keeps it ticking over when 'off ' so it doesnt take too long to warm back up

 

[keiron12]

Yeah, tried turning it off tried turning it right down....tried everything I can think if!

 

[Liamsparks]

Get a qualified electrician around.

 

[derbylad]

I do have a relatively large area heated by the underfloor heating, but have set all thermostats to switch on only when required ie bedroom and bathroom in morning and living room and kitchen come on at 5-10pm.

Scottish Power did install a check meter for 2 weeks to confirm it wasn't a meter fault.

I've disconnected the thermostat in the living room as I had ruled out other rooms, and have noticed the meter slowing significantly since. Could it be a fault with the thermostat? If so, would I have any claim against the manufacturer/spark who installed it?

Thanks guys for all your comments and advice.

did the spark who installed it have insurance ? If so your best bet is to tell them what you think and I'm sure they will pay the electric bill ,maybe

 

[Risteard]

A little late to complain now, I reckon.

 

[uksparks]

I'd tell you to go and sling your hook and do one if you tried it on with me, YOU are responsible for YOUR electricity usage, if you choose to not look at your meter that's your problem.

 

[ifindoubtdont]

This thread is over 4 yrs old, but it would be nice to know the outcome. Keiron12 are you still out there.

 

[Marvo]

He's not been around since the middle of 2012 but he might get an email notification that there was a reply in this thread if he was subscribed to it.

 

[DPG]

Not saying there wasn't a fault with his system somewhere, but I think people do under-estimate the amount of power that electric under-floor heating takes in big rooms. Daz