EM Lock Partially Energize

[marconi]

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Is the EM lock this one? Are they both the same?

Is the plate for the second lock perfectly flat against the EM?

Do you have a multimeter so that you can measure the current through each EM magnet and the voltage across each one?

At 12V dc, if the EM lock is as in the link, they each need at 12V a current of 450mA which is why I have asked you to measure both current and voltage.

If you have a multimeter, also measure the voltage across the output terminals of the RFID switch

Do you have any details of the 12V dc power supply and RFID switch? If you send me the details I will look up their specifications for you.

 

[Deswin]

Does the second lock work if the first one is not connected?

I recent try this method directly connected the second emlock to PSU but still failing to attract the strike plate.

 

[Pete999]

Have you bothered to clean th magnetic pole faces?

How far apart are the two lock sites?

 

[Deswin]

How far apart are the two lock sites?

My friend, I tried all possible thing to work the two magnet but still the second magnet is not working. I try did wiring for separate for two magnet even not working when connected to power supply. Even i use two power supply for each magnet, but still second magnet shows the same result.

 

[marconi]

Does the EM lock require an ac or dc supply and of what voltage? If you provide details of it I will look it up.

 

[Deswin]

Does the EM lock require an ac or dc supply and of what voltage? If you provide details of it I will look it up.

Hello my friend,I draw a complete connection i did for two em locks. and all the specs i mention in my drawings. The both em lock is control by access card reader power supply relay which control the magnets. This is the main wiring diagram. So my problem in this situation is the em lock 1 is fully energize and em lock 2 is partially energy and cant stick to the strike plate.

 

[marconi]

Do your power supplies have Normally Open and Normally Closed outputs? Do they also have a time delay? Are both the EM locks fail safe? I am wondering if you have connected EM1 to its PSU differently to the way EM2 is connected to its power supply, say to NC for EM1 and NO for EM2? Or vice versa.

In your diagram in # 21 I do not see how the power supplies are controlled by the access reader - you show L and N paralleled at the input to the card reader - do you mean to show Nin and Nout connected together, Lin and a separate Lout to the power supplies?

If there is a time delay feature on the power supplies is it set the same on both power supplies?

If I assume the locks are fail safe - power required to lock them, and you have connected them to their power supplies differently so that one is energised and locked (EM1) and the other is de-energised and unlocked(EM2) - then when someone used the RFID system, the power supplies to the locks are briefly turned off if EM2 is connected the same way as EM1 and both locks are de-energised. However, if EM2 is connected differently to EM1, EM1 is briefly de-energised, but EM2 is briefly energised but not long enough to keep the door locked. If there is a delay feature and it was set to a longer delay the energisation of EM2 and hence locking of the door as the RFID was activated would be noticeable because the door could not be opened until the delay had elapsed.

It might also be that EM1 is a fail safe type and EM2 is a fail locked type - no power and the magnet keeps the door closed. But with power EM2 is unlocked. With a longer delay set, then when the power is removed from EM1 but applied to EM2 - because they are wired differently to their respective PSU - both locks unlock and the door(s) can be opened.

Or something along these lines.

I assume you have done continuity, resistance and voltage and current measurements to check that EM2 is receiving the power it requires.

Any chance of some more photos of the set up?

 

[Deswin]

Do your power supplies have Normally Open and Normally Closed outputs? Do they also have a time delay? Are both the EM locks fail safe? I am wondering if you have connected EM1 to its PSU differently to the way EM2 is connected to its power supply, say to NC for EM1 and NO for EM2? Or vice versa.

In your diagram in # 21 I do not see how the power supplies are controlled by the access reader - you show L and N paralleled at the input to the card reader - do you mean to show Nin and Nout connected together, Lin and a separate Lout to the power supplies?

If there is a time delay feature on the power supplies is it set the same on both power supplies?

If I assume the locks are fail safe - power required to lock them, and you have connected them to their power supplies differently so that one is energised and locked (EM1) and the other is de-energised and unlocked(EM2) - then when someone used the RFID system, the power supplies to the locks are briefly turned off if EM2 is connected the same way as EM1 and both locks are de-energised. However, if EM2 is connected differently to EM1, EM1 is briefly de-energised, but EM2 is briefly energised but not long enough to keep the door locked. If there is a delay feature and it was set to a longer delay the energisation of EM2 and hence locking of the door as the RFID was activated would be noticeable because the door could not be opened until the delay had elapsed.

It might also be that EM1 is a fail safe type and EM2 is a fail locked type - no power and the magnet keeps the door closed. But with power EM2 is unlocked. With a longer delay set, then when the power is removed from EM1 but applied to EM2 - because they are wired differently to their respective PSU - both locks unlock and the door(s) can be opened.

Or something along these lines.

I assume you have done continuity, resistance and voltage and current measurements to check that EM2 is receiving the power it requires.

Any chance of some more photos of the set up?

Hello my friend. Both EM lock is fail safe type. The first thing is did is I connect 12VDC 3A to emlock(1) 12V+ to 12V- then i loop in the connection to rm lock (2), but the frist em lock is energize but the second didnt energize. Then i did separate wiring connection to both em lock to one power supply 12VDC with 3A still the second one didnt energize. Then i did separate wiring for em lock with separate power supply and still the result is same. When i check the voltage in emlock 2, i set the voltage around 12.10VDC in power supply, but in the emlock 2 voltage shown in multimeter is 11.89VDC. I dont have ammeter function in my multimeter cause it's small meter. I try change new emlock but the result is same. Im so tired doing troubleshooting for this em lock. It's like unsolve mystery for me . I got the control wiring for the both emlock. and the door type is two door frameless swinging glass door usually install in shop. The access card reader power supply has 3-15 second delay setting for fail safe em lock. The brown color wire is V+ and blue color wire is V-
[automerge]1575801687[/automerge]

Do your power supplies have Normally Open and Normally Closed outputs? Do they also have a time delay? Are both the EM locks fail safe? I am wondering if you have connected EM1 to its PSU differently to the way EM2 is connected to its power supply, say to NC for EM1 and NO for EM2? Or vice versa.

In your diagram in # 21 I do not see how the power supplies are controlled by the access reader - you show L and N paralleled at the input to the card reader - do you mean to show Nin and Nout connected together, Lin and a separate Lout to the power supplies?

If there is a time delay feature on the power supplies is it set the same on both power supplies?

If I assume the locks are fail safe - power required to lock them, and you have connected them to their power supplies differently so that one is energised and locked (EM1) and the other is de-energised and unlocked(EM2) - then when someone used the RFID system, the power supplies to the locks are briefly turned off if EM2 is connected the same way as EM1 and both locks are de-energised. However, if EM2 is connected differently to EM1, EM1 is briefly de-energised, but EM2 is briefly energised but not long enough to keep the door locked. If there is a delay feature and it was set to a longer delay the energisation of EM2 and hence locking of the door as the RFID was activated would be noticeable because the door could not be opened until the delay had elapsed.

It might also be that EM1 is a fail safe type and EM2 is a fail locked type - no power and the magnet keeps the door closed. But with power EM2 is unlocked. With a longer delay set, then when the power is removed from EM1 but applied to EM2 - because they are wired differently to their respective PSU - both locks unlock and the door(s) can be opened.

Or something along these lines.

I assume you have done continuity, resistance and voltage and current measurements to check that EM2 is receiving the power it requires.

Any chance of some more photos of the set up?

Does the power supply is not have enough power to produce require ampere to energize the emlock 2. Cause i did parallel connection for access card reader power supply to two power supply and directly connected to Main supply 240VAC. Does it effect the power consumption for power supply which can't work inefficiently.

 

[marconi]

After all your swaps it does look like EM lock 2 is defective. If it is not easy to return and obtain a replacement then I would open up EML2. I suspect there is a broken wire so no current flows through the solenoid. Or, the varnish insulating the wires which are connected to the two input terminals has not been scraped away to expose copper before they were soldered so no electrical contact is made. I found this was a problem on a JLS electric door strike recently.

Do you have a small 15W or 25W soldering iron and some solder? To scrape the resin of the wires I find my wife's fine emery nail board works well.

View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/DOUBLE-SIDED-FILES-SELLER-STRAIGHT/dp/B00HPUFABM/ref=asc_df_B00HPUFABM/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=210206607511&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15760338447073775305&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044948&hvtargid=pla-436222012078&psc=1


The wire is often several twisted thin varnished strands with some sleeving over them between the solenoid and the terminals. After remaking the soldered terminals my electric door strike worked. it is important that all these strands are connected otherwise there is less current going through the solenoid.

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[Deswin]

After all your swaps it does look like EM lock 2 is defective. If it is not easy to return and obtain a replacement then I would open up EML2. I suspect there is a broken wire so no current flows through the solenoid. Or, the varnish insulating the wires which are connected to the two input terminals has not been scraped away to expose copper before they were soldered so no electrical contact is made. I found this was a problem on a JLS electric door strike recently.

Do you have a small 15W or 25W soldering iron and some solder? To scrape the resin of the wires I find my wife's fine emery nail board works well.

View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/DOUBLE-SIDED-FILES-SELLER-STRAIGHT/dp/B00HPUFABM/ref=asc_df_B00HPUFABM/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=210206607511&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15760338447073775305&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044948&hvtargid=pla-436222012078&psc=1


The wire is often several twisted thin varnished strands with some sleeving over them between the solenoid and the terminals. After remaking the soldered terminals my electric door strike worked. it is important that all these strands are connected otherwise there is less current going through the solenoid.

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Inside the emlock there's a diode 1N4007 and Varistor 1D070220K connected parallel to emlock coil. The PCB inside the emlock is fine and i test with multi meter works fine.

 

[marconi]

Remove the white plug from the pcb. Disconnect the brown and blue from pcb. Carefully connect brown and blue directly to pins of the plug without shorting together. Use the whitesheath of some flex to insulate say the brown wrapped round the plug pin so when you touch the other pin with blue it cannot touch the brown.

Or carefully insert say 3mm of bared brown and blue into the top of the plug - having removed it from pcb first.

Apply power.

 

[Deswin]

Remove the white plug from the pcb. Disconnect the brown and blue from pcb. Carefully connect brown and blue directly to pins of the plug without shorting together. Use the whitesheath of some flex to insulate say the brown wrapped round the plug pin so when you touch the other pin with blue it cannot touch the brown.

Or carefully insert say 3mm of bared brown and blue into the top of the plug - having removed it from pcb first.

Apply power.

Okay my friend, i will continue troubleshoot this method and see the result,but do is effect the magnet coil if there's high amps ?

 

[marconi]

There will be no more current through the coil than when connected as assembled when you bought it. The risk is to the power supplies if your short brown and blue.

How did you test the circuit board? With an Ohmmeter? What resistance readings did you measure?

What make and model number is EML2?

With no power supplied will the lock hold a screwdriver? With power supplied will the lock hold a screwdriver which when power removed drops away?

Is EML2 parallel to its door plate? What air gap is there between EML2 and the door plate? How does it compare with EML1?

Could you buy a cheap but useful digital multimeter like this one:

View: https://www.amazon.com/Voltmeter-Ammeter-Electrical-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B00N3KQ4IG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1PKGHLFPQ4XO8&keywords=digital+multimeter&qid=1575822379&sprefix=digital+mul%2Caps%2C249&sr=8-1


Where are you in Malaysia?

 

[Deswin]

There will be no more current through the coil than when connected as assembled when you bought it. The risk is to the power supplies if your short brown and blue.

How did you test the circuit board? With an Ohmmeter? What resistance readings did you measure?

What make and model number is EML2?

With no power supplied will the lock hold a screwdriver? With power supplied will the lock hold a screwdriver which when power removed drops away?

Is EML2 parallel to its door plate? What air gap is there between EML2 and the door plate? How does it compare with EML1?

Could you buy a cheap but useful digital multimeter like this one:

View: https://www.amazon.com/Voltmeter-Ammeter-Electrical-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B00N3KQ4IG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1PKGHLFPQ4XO8&keywords=digital+multimeter&qid=1575822379&sprefix=digital+mul%2Caps%2C249&sr=8-1


Where are you in Malaysia?

i didnt test the circuit board. Just test the diode polarity and it's okay. I got digital multimeter but has limited function not much as the meter you show. The alightment between em lock and the door plate is good. When i power on the access card reader the first emlock fully hold the strike plate,but the second emlock is not fully hold. Althought the second emlock hold weaker still has magnetic field,when I try put a strike plate from other magnet without door bracket can hold the strike plate. When i press exit button the strike plate at emlock 2 is dropped. I'm still scratching my head for this emlock troubleshoot and this is my first time doing wiring for this system.


I'm at Selangor in Malaysia.

 

[DPG]

i didnt test the circuit board. Just test the diode polarity and it's okay. I got digital multimeter but has limited function not much as the meter you show. The alightment between em lock and the door plate is good. When i power on the access card reader the first emlock fully hold the strike plate,but the second emlock is not fully hold. Althought the second emlock hold weaker still has magnetic field,when I try put a strike plate from other magnet without door bracket can hold the strike plate. When i press exit button the strike plate at emlock 2 is dropped. I'm still scratching my head for this emlock troubleshoot and this is my first time doing wiring for this system.


I'm at Selangor in Malaysia.

Remove both locks and power them from a known good supply with short wires. Is there any difference between them in holding power?