Emergency lighting confusion.

[Rattlehead85]

Ok I have a confusing situation regarding some Emergency lighting. I have a string of 2D 28w lights in a ward corridor at an nhs unit which are switched from a nursing station with a key switch next to them. It appears that the key switch only breaks the permanent feed to the Emergency fittings and not the whole circuit. I have three EM lights which are all out. Removing the covers I found that the charging indicators are not lit....I have 230 between the S/L and neutral but nothing between permanent live and neutral. In this situation with the battery connected nothing lights but as soon as you remove the battery the lamp lights... I get that and points to just battery issues. Now...when you operate the key switch the charging lamp comes on but the lamp does not light up at all...This Is what is confusing me. I replaced the tridonic ballast combo to check and still nothing. Am I correct in saying the issue is just the battery spent where it has been unplugged and left which when you plug back in causes an issue with the functioning of the ballast combo?? Really confused on this and just does not make sense or am I missing something simple here which I have overlooked in the confusion. Surely with the permanent feed reinstated and power on the switch line the lamp should light regardless of the battery state?? Any help would be much appreciated as it’s driving me nuts trying to figure this out. TIA

 

[James]

Power to perm l should illuminate charge light regardless of the switched live

Light should illuminate on battery (dim) when power is on switched live and not on perm live

Light should illuminate to full brightness when power applied to both.

If battery is flat, power to switched live only (not perm live) will mean light is off.

Edit,
It seems like they may have been left on test for so long that the batteries are completely discharged or they have failed.

I would change battery and check next day when fully charged.

 

[Rattlehead85]

Power to perm l should illuminate charge light regardless of the switched live

Light should illuminate on battery (dim) when power is on switched live and not on perm live

Light should illuminate to full brightness when power applied to both.

If battery is flat, power to switched live only (not perm live) will mean light is off.

Edit,
It seems like they may have been left on test for so long that the batteries are completely discharged or they have failed.

I would change battery and check next day when fully charged.

Well that’s exactly what I was thinking but then when I get power on the permanent live and the witness lamp is lit the bulb does not illuminate. Only way to get it lit is unplug the battery which surely is not right if you have power on both permanent live and switch line? I even checked the ballast is connected right and it is. I replaced both the ballast and the bulb and still get the issue.

 

[Strima]

I'd say the battery is goosed and the unit has detected this causing it to shut down whilst the battery is connected.

 

[snowhead]

I'd also say the Battery is Goosed and when connected and trying to charge is possibly dragging the voltage down on the control gear electronics.

 

[Rattlehead85]

Thanks guys...i kinda had that same thinking to...either that or in trying to work out the issue in a difficult environment i got lost in the switch/key switch positions and haven’t realised. Either way tomorrow i’m going to reconfirm i have the s/l and feeds correct in the fittings and change the battery packs. Ballasts and lamps are already new so it surely cannot be anything else. ?‍
What did surprise me was that only the EM fittings have the key switch in the permanent supply and not the whole circuit. I’m used to seeing the key switch cutting the supply to the whole circuit rather than operating the circuit protective device to simulate full circuit failure.

 

[cloverman]

It seems to me, What you have here is a Non- Maintained emergency light fitting, ie when the power is on, the led charging light will be on but the lamp will be off and when you isolate the power via the key switch the lamp will come on powered via the battery and the led charging light will be off.

it does seem like a battery issue to me as well.
If it's a maintained one there will be a link wire in the fitting between S/L & L

 

[Rattlehead85]

Ok so I had the same issue today..Got called to a 2D 28w emergency fitting that was out. Witness green led was lit..had both S/L and permanent live voltage present. As soon as I unplug the battery the lamp lights... plug it back in with the mains on .....lamp goes out. These fittings are using a Tridonic combo ballast. Does anybody know the reason for this? The ballast is correctly wired and I have confirmed the S/L and Permanent feeds are the correct way around.

 

[cloverman]

Rattlehead85
Have you installed a new battery in the unit ?

 

[Rattlehead85]

Rattlehead85
Have you installed a new battery in the unit ?

Not yet simply because i have to order them in and i don’t want to do that to find its not the battery but i can’t understand what else it can possibly be. New ballast..new bulb so it can’t be them.

 

[cloverman]

When you unplug the battery you are basically putting the unit into normal power supply mode (230V) and it will operate from the S/L
Connect the battery up and if it is dead the unit will not work as it identifies a fault

I believe you said that it is in an NHS property ?
Are they on a monitoring system ? Or just a basic Emergency light setup
Not at that makes any different from my experience !

 

[Rattlehead85]

When you unplug the battery you are basically putting the unit into normal power supply mode (230V) and it will operate from the S/L
Connect the battery up and if it is dead the unit will not work as it identifies a fault

I believe you said that it is in an NHS property ?
Are they on a monitoring system ? Or just a basic Emergency light setup

Just a basic self contained lighting set up with tons of failed EM fittings. Also have a 3 position timed key switch marked up as Emergency test relay..I have no key to operate this but removing power at the mcb to the relay does not initiate any EM lighting at all which again points to a lot of failed lights.

 

[Strima]

Any installation or manufacturing dates in the batteries?

 

[cloverman]

I've gone to some units whereby the batteries hadn't been changed since they were installed in the early 90's then people wonder why they don't work !!!
To be honest Rattlehead85, I would be inclined to swop them all for LED fittings, less hassle and if you are replacing parts in each fitting anyhow it will work out cheaper.

Get yourself some key switch keys from your local supplier, if this is something that you are doing on a regular basis you need them really

 

[Cozzy1984]

I've gone to some units whereby the batteries hadn't been changed since they were installed in the early 90's then people wonder why they don't work !!!
To be honest Rattlehead85, I would be inclined to swop them all for LED fittings, less hassle and if you are replacing parts in each fitting anyhow it will work out cheaper.

Get yourself some key switch keys from your local supplier, if this is something that you are doing on a regular basis you need them really

I have an emergency fitting from 1994 and the battery still lasts like 4 hours and I test it regularly I have newer L.E.D fittings that have had 2 battery changes in 5 years so older is sometimes better.