EPC D Rural Fail Case Studies Please

[SRE]

I've been asked to provide some case studies of rural D rating failures so that they can be discussed at the next Working group at DECC. Apparently the NFU has been lobbying for lower ratings in off gas areas too. If you have any information that would help the cause I'd really appreciate the information.

 

[TedM]

This report may help - http://www.consumerfocus.org.uk/files/2011/10/Off-gas-consumers.pdf

See Figure 7 - Main heating fuel by EPC rating in England, Scotland and Wales, 2008

This clearly shows a correlation between EPC rating and method of heating.

 

[SRE]

Thanks to Ted & Earthstore I've made a good start, tweeted Barking copying in an MP who is not my MP but relatively local and interested and he's taking it back to government for further discussion. Any specific case would be really useful if you have any.

 

[SolarCity]

I noticed the Tweeted reply. Good work SRE!

 

[moggy1968]

Good luck.
It's ridiculous that someone with an older building or oil fired heating is effectively barred from installing PV.
If it has to be EPC related, it should be related to the maximum achievable EPC of the property (although I don't think it should be related at all).

 

[Mattty]

Just because a property is old or uses oil and has stone walls doesn't mean it will not make a D. I did a detached pre-1900 property. Good Loft insulation, newish oil condensing boiler with good controls. Only 20% of the walls and floor had any insulation. It scored 61 or a D rating and would score even higher when the panels are installed.

I live in an old pre-1900 property solid brick walls (not insulated) and my home scores 74 or a C rating.

On the EPCs I have completed that were for solar installers I have only had 1 that didn't make the grade, but it will once the panels are installed. That was a 1950's concrete build, with an old mains gas back boiler. The property 2 doors up did make the grade because it had a better boiler.

I know this is probably the wrong forum, but energy efficiency should be considered before solar panels because the payback for a lot of recommendations (not all) can be much quicker (even with the feed-in-tariff) and so arguably is a better investment.

 

[SRE]

Matty, I've been in the energy efficiency industry for 20 years. I took my City & Guilds 6176 in 1989 and I trained as a DEA when they first came out and gave advice for many, many years before that. My own property just achieves a d rating with cavity wall insulation, 5 year old boiler, 300mm loft insulation, double glazing and 4kwp of solar pv. If my walls were solid I wouldn't get anywhere near a D.

You are right, energy efficiency should be the first priority, it's been my mantra for 20 years. but please explain to me why there should be one set of rules for people on the gas grid and another for those who aren't? All we're asking for is parity with urban areas - we're already penalised with much more expensive forms of heating, why should we then have to invest more than our friends on the natural gas grid just to achieve the same 21p/kwh?

At least if you're in an urban area and your cavity can't be filled because of snots or other forms of bridging you can still achieve D with relative ease - not so if you are on oil.

 

[SRE]

Just looking at a couple of rural EPCs to see if there's any way to get those pesky solid wall oil heated houses up to D rating. The good news is it's achievable. The latest example I've looked at can achieve a D rating if they:

Install 50mm of internal or external wall insulation (AONB so would have to be internal)
Install fan storage heaters (nowhere for oil or sf)
Install solar thermal
Install 2.5kwp of solar pv
Install a wind turbine

At the end of this it creeps into the D rating - hurrah!

Only problem is it's a 48m2 terraced house so I'm not quite sure where we're going to put the solar thermal, 2.5kwp pv and wind turbine and if we install 50mm of internal insulation I'm not sure there will be much room left to live in.

I'll keep trying I'm sure there must be one out there ....

 

[zeljuga]

You don't got et SRE. Internal insulation = move to garden shed = > enargy = no EPC= DECC satisfied.

 

[Gavin A]

You don't got et SRE. Internal insulation = move to garden shed = > enargy = no EPC= DECC satisfied.

only if the garden shed has its own separately metered supply, which IME doesn't usually apply.

 

[SRE]

I don't know what's worse - having to fight to get properties to a D rating in an area with oil or fighting other installers for work in urban areas where there is natural gas!!

 

[snoopdog]

I don't know what's worse - having to fight to get properties to a D rating in an area with oil or fighting other installers for work in urban areas where there is natural gas!!

Hi We are struggling with an epc on a farm proposed cow shed with 40 Kw Pv

The farmhouse is fed from the same supply miserably with the epc.

We now have someone working on the case for a epc exemption certificate with DECC in this instance early days let you know if sucessful

 

[Mattty]

But that would be clearly against what is stated on the DECC site. While the domestic EPC wouldn't be able to cope with a 40kW system. You can add 3, 10 kW systems and that would put most buildings well past a D rating.

I just tried it with a building that scores 1 or a G rating. With 3, 10kW systems added it went up to an A rating with an off the chart score of 122.

What EPC rating did the farm house originally get?

Although, if it has heat loss walls totalling more than 70 metres in length it may struggle.

 

[Gavin A]

yeah, surely 40kW of PV would take any farmhouse to at least a D rating wouldn't it?

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Been looking at a farm in a ANOB and the building is grade II listed, building is heated by oil and open fire and probably a waste of time doing an EPC. We are looking at a loophole where the Barn that is going to house somewhere between 4 and 11 kW will have an office built to which the EPC will apply, utilising the clause "building or part thereof" following advice given .....see the Solar Portal link in the response below...


Dear Graeme

Please find a link to the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) FAQs around FITs and EPC requirements.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/c...e_ener/feedin_tariff/fits_faqs/fits_faqs.aspx
Question 24 states :
The only circumstance where an installation can be eligible for the standard solar PV tariffs without meeting the energy efficiency requirement is where a generator can demonstrate that it is not possible to obtain an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for a building that the installation is attached or wired to provide electricity to.
The instances in which this “exemption” applies are expected to be limited. This is because:-

1. it should be possible to obtain an EPC for any building that meets the definition of building set out in the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive (it is important to note that this includes buildings which are not currently required under that Directive to have an EPC when sold, let or built); and
2. in many cases we expect that solar PV installations which are attached to a building for which it is not possible to obtain an EPC, will nonetheless be wired to provide electricity to a building that is able to obtain an EPC. For example, this might include a solar PV installation attached to a barn that is also wired to provide electricity to a farmhouse. In this example, the requirement would still apply and could be met if an EPC were provided demonstrating that the farmhouse was rated at EPC level D or above.
   

Because of this, application of the “exemption” will need to be considered on a case by case basis. In other words there isn’t a list of exempt building types as in all cases it will depend on the particular circumstances.
Generators will need to satisfy FIT Licensees and Ofgem that it is not possible to obtain an EPC for a particular building in support of their application for FITs. This evidence could, for example, be in the form of a declaration or letter from an accredited energy assessor who has visited the site in question and who confirms that it is not possible to provide an EPC for the building to which the PV installation is attached should be submitted. Generators will also need to satisfy FIT Licensees and Ofgem that the installation is not wired to any other buildings for which it is possible to obtain an EPC.
Decisions on eligibility for FITs are ultimately a matter for FIT Licensees and Ofgem to make on receipt of an application for FITs, and not a matter that DECC can offer a view on. Ofgem will shortly be issuing further guidance for generators and suppliers on the changes to the FITs legislation resulting from the first phase of the comprehensive review, including the application of the energy efficiency requirement.
I have also found the following article on the internet which provides one installers take on how the new requirements apply to farms :

50kW farm solar projects after April 1 (now with EPC D) |*Solar Power Portal

From what I can see you must provide an EPC unless you can prove that the installation is being completed on a non building (as defined in the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive). Therefore I would say you probably need to consult with an expert in this field to obtain confirmation that you are installing / wiring the panels to a non building. You could possibly speak to an energy assessor. If you cannot get this then you will either need to provide an EPC for the building or the installation will receive the lower rate of the FIT.

I hope this information is helpful

Kind regards,

Julie Coombes | MCS Licensee

Gemserv Limited 10 Fenchurch Street
London, EC3M 3BE