Estate Agents says Fit For Purpose

[Deleted account]

The odd fire in room is about aesthetics, not an electrical issue.

The possitioning of the lights is also about aesthetics, not an electrical issue.

Having one socket in garage is normal. Unless you specified to the agent or landlord your requirements how could they know you wanted more.

Compresors have a very high start up kick. Difficult to comment on as the garage circuit is spured of a house circuit. I don't know what else was in use on that circuit at the same time or what size and type breaker it is on.

You've just gone through a stressful move. All moves are stressful, we all can sympathise with that.
On top of that you moved in a hurry so you didn't have the time to look for and get the property you really wanted.

It may be worth taking your time now and look for a property that would suit your needs better. This time specifying to agent and landlord your requirements.

I did get a very rare dumb from me earlier, but I'm going to remove it as its not very constructive and I can tell your in a bit of a fettle, so maybe a bit more sensitive to issues than normal.

 

[snowhead]

another problem with theses compressors that nobody has mentioned, is that if volt drop is excessive due to long cable run or undersized cable, they refuse to start and the windings burn out.

And if the temperature is low and or the compressor has been standing for a while, the compressor oil will be thick and the startup current will be high.
My 2hp compressor needed a "Special" 13amp fuse to guarantee starting when cold.

 

[Risteard]

Ask your landlord for a copy of the electrical installation condition report (EICR) for the property.
This should tell you if there are any defects, faults, or non compliances and it's safe for continued use.

Unfortunately it is not a legal requirement for land lords to do this, but he does have a legal duty of care to ensure his property is safe electrically. By doing an EICR this ensures it is.

Any decent landlord would get this done.

It is a recommendation to have one done every 5 years or less and change of occupancy.

Although these are often done for rental properties it would be highly unusual for the landlord to give the tenant a copy of it.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

As I was going to upgrade I bought another AC not knowing it was recommended to run off 16 amps as the literature said 13 amp.

In that case take it back. Goods must be as described and fit for purpose. This compressor is neither.

 

[45140]

Mr Hughes,

I have sympathy for you, as I moved recently and had a not dissimilar problem.

The kitchen has a gas hob that has only two working electric ignitors and in fairness the landlord has said that he will resolve that issue - maybe a replacement hob. Now personally we prefer an electric hob, so I agreed with the landlord that if we supply the hob, he will let me fit it. So far so good, however....

When I pulled the oven unit out, I find that some ---- has installed 2.5 T&E when the house was rewired 5 years ago, and the hob requires a 27A supply. The circuit MCB has been downrated to 20A

Speak to the landlord and tell him that his cooker circuit is not suitable and will need an upgrade, and offer to do the work. However the landlord's Agent has told him in no uncertain terms never to allow a tenant to do any work whatsoever.

So on Monday the landlord's electrician shows up - only an hour and a half late - tells me that it is fine to use 2.5 T&E on a cooker circuit on the basis as the Landlord must have agreed to this when the oven and hob were installed. He decides it will take a day and a half to do the work and obviously the landlord's view on the cost quoted is why should he pay for us wanting an electric hob. I am pretty certain based on the conversations that this is the electrician who fitted this arrangement

Now I have never seen a cooker cct ever wired in to less than a 30 or 45 Amp supply and without a copy of the 17th or I cannot confirm what the requirement is for Cooker circuits and whether or not there is sufficient grounds to claim that it should have been installed to facilitate a high demand cooker. As I see it the cct MCB has been downrated and although not ideal, there is no safety issue here.

Currently I am trying to negotiate that I do the work and the landlords electrician do the testing.

Frankly it leaves a poor taste in the mouth but I am sitting with an electric hob and a wife who does not like gas. Irrespective of that I am going to have to spend my time and money bringing the cooker cct up to the required standard when this is something I should never have to do.

On the basis that the electrician turned up without a MFM and left his voltage tester at a previous job, and so worked live on the other repair jobs I wonder what other little gems await.

Unfortunately the landlord thinks the world to this long established electrician, who from what I gather has not even brought himself up-to-date with the new 18th Edition, and who charges a lot of money for crap like that.

So my friend you have my sympathies and unless you pay for it yourself or can reach an agreement with the landlord you may have to find somewhere else - or get a small generator

 

[pirate]

The garage is fit for purpose because it probably was ok to put a car in it when it was built, but as is often the case nowadays, older garages can't really accommodate modern, bigger cars. As an aside, I once successfully made a claim for a client who bought a brand new build house (UGHH!!) and couldn't fit his Toyota Aygo in the garage...he got several thousand pounds in an out of court settlement. However, if the single socket in the garage meets normal specs then it is fit for purpose. If it isn't safe however, then clearly it isn't. Here in Scotland landlords have to provide an EICR and provide a copy to the tenant...I think this is a good law.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Mr Hughes,

I have sympathy for you, as I moved recently and had a not dissimilar problem.

The kitchen has a gas hob that has only two working electric ignitors and in fairness the landlord has said that he will resolve that issue - maybe a replacement hob. Now personally we prefer an electric hob, so I agreed with the landlord that if we supply the hob, he will let me fit it. So far so good, however....

When I pulled the oven unit out, I find that some **** has installed 2.5 T&E when the house was rewired 5 years ago, and the hob requires a 27A supply. The circuit MCB has been downrated to 20A

Speak to the landlord and tell him that his cooker circuit is not suitable and will need an upgrade, and offer to do the work. However the landlord's Agent has told him in no uncertain terms never to allow a tenant to do any work whatsoever.

So on Monday the landlord's electrician shows up - only an hour and a half late - tells me that it is fine to use 2.5 T&E on a cooker circuit on the basis as the Landlord must have agreed to this when the oven and hob were installed. He decides it will take a day and a half to do the work and obviously the landlord's view on the cost quoted is why should he pay for us wanting an electric hob. I am pretty certain based on the conversations that this is the electrician who fitted this arrangement

Now I have never seen a cooker cct ever wired in to less than a 30 or 45 Amp supply and without a copy of the 17th or I cannot confirm what the requirement is for Cooker circuits and whether or not there is sufficient grounds to claim that it should have been installed to facilitate a high demand cooker. As I see it the cct MCB has been downrated and although not ideal, there is no safety issue here.

Currently I am trying to negotiate that I do the work and the landlords electrician do the testing.

Frankly it leaves a poor taste in the mouth but I am sitting with an electric hob and a wife who does not like gas. Irrespective of that I am going to have to spend my time and money bringing the cooker cct up to the required standard when this is something I should never have to do.

On the basis that the electrician turned up without a MFM and left his voltage tester at a previous job, and so worked live on the other repair jobs I wonder what other little gems await.

Unfortunately the landlord thinks the world to this long established electrician, who from what I gather has not even brought himself up-to-date with the new 18th Edition, and who charges a lot of money for crap like that.

So my friend you have my sympathies and unless you pay for it yourself or can reach an agreement with the landlord you may have to find somewhere else - or get a small generator

Why did you accept a place with a gas hob if your wife wants electric? No sympathy I'm afraid. 2.5mm is perfectly OK for an oven which it was installed for.

 

[StephenRowley]

The fire place is the centre of the room because that's where whoever installed decided they wanted it.

While a lot of LL can rb a hole sounds like yours is allright. But if you want to change things it's up to pay for the changes not your LL.

 

[John Arnold]

Ask to see the electrical test report for the property you are renting to prove it has been tested properly and to confirm it is "fit for purpose".

 

[l4urence]

I use a compressor myself and feel for the chap, once you use one they become indispensable. Loss is a sad thing, we shouldn't be so hard. Sadness aside, I think perhaps it was damaged in the move - did the new compressor work on the same socket, no reason why it shouldn't do if fitted with a 13A plug. The op is right to ask this question here. Was the old compressor dated, some old motors can be more inductive and look like a short when first connected - tripping a B type mcb pretty easily - noticed more perhaps with welding machines rather than compressors. Welders are of course a different story...

 

[alasdairp]

another problem with theses compressors that nobody has mentioned, is that if volt drop is excessive due to long cable run or undersized cable, they refuse to start and the windings burn out.

A good point. This is common. It also ages garden tool motors, electric drills, etc, if then are run on long extension leads. Shortest and heaviest duty leads extend the working life of portable mains-powered motorised tools (etc). Washing machines (etc) should be on a 2.5 ring or 4mm radial imho. A higher impedance not only causes voltage drop, but also encourages excessive sparking at the motor if it has brushes due to back-emfs not being damped adequately by the higher that ideal supply impedance. You can fit an X2 rated 10 or 15 uF capacitor across the remote connection L-N if you have to use a long lead or feeder. That damps the sparking and removes the excessive voltage spikes.

 

[EalingBadger]

another problem with theses compressors that nobody has mentioned, is that if volt drop is excessive due to long cable run or undersized cable, they refuse to start and the windings burn out.

Indeed, and this can also be caused by poor contact (as evidenced by the reported sparking) in the socket.

Some compressors have a valve which can (should) be used to reduce the load on the motor on startup to help combat the potentially fatal (for the motor) startup stall.

Mine does (also a unit for which a 16A circuit is "recommended" but which it is heavily implied can run off a 13A plug!) and there are dire warnings about the warranty consequences of failing to employ said decompression valve on startup as required in the instruction manual. (Obviously I appreciate that no real man ever feels the need to read one of these but just for a moment suspend your disbelief and imagine that somebody once did. Just out of idle curiosity for example. )

To be slightly clearer - I think what the instructions are really saying is that it is imperative that one ensures that the unloader valve is operated manually prior to initial startup just in case the unit was shutdown without this valve having had the chance to complete its cycle and depressurise the outlet tube attached to the compressor as the motor does not have the grunt to start up cold against the (possibly not so residual) pressure that might still be trapped in this tube.

 

[davesparks]

Although these are often done for rental properties it would be highly unusual for the landlord to give the tenant a copy of it.

However the tenant can request to see it if it does exist, and the landlord can't refuse a reasonable request such as this.

 

[davesparks]

Mr Hughes,

I have sympathy for you, as I moved recently and had a not dissimilar problem.

The kitchen has a gas hob that has only two working electric ignitors and in fairness the landlord has said that he will resolve that issue - maybe a replacement hob. Now personally we prefer an electric hob, so I agreed with the landlord that if we supply the hob, he will let me fit it. So far so good, however....

When I pulled the oven unit out, I find that some **** has installed 2.5 T&E when the house was rewired 5 years ago, and the hob requires a 27A supply. The circuit MCB has been downrated to 20A

Speak to the landlord and tell him that his cooker circuit is not suitable and will need an upgrade, and offer to do the work. However the landlord's Agent has told him in no uncertain terms never to allow a tenant to do any work whatsoever.

So on Monday the landlord's electrician shows up - only an hour and a half late - tells me that it is fine to use 2.5 T&E on a cooker circuit on the basis as the Landlord must have agreed to this when the oven and hob were installed. He decides it will take a day and a half to do the work and obviously the landlord's view on the cost quoted is why should he pay for us wanting an electric hob. I am pretty certain based on the conversations that this is the electrician who fitted this arrangement

Now I have never seen a cooker cct ever wired in to less than a 30 or 45 Amp supply and without a copy of the 17th or I cannot confirm what the requirement is for Cooker circuits and whether or not there is sufficient grounds to claim that it should have been installed to facilitate a high demand cooker. As I see it the cct MCB has been downrated and although not ideal, there is no safety issue here.

Currently I am trying to negotiate that I do the work and the landlords electrician do the testing.

Frankly it leaves a poor taste in the mouth but I am sitting with an electric hob and a wife who does not like gas. Irrespective of that I am going to have to spend my time and money bringing the cooker cct up to the required standard when this is something I should never have to do.

On the basis that the electrician turned up without a MFM and left his voltage tester at a previous job, and so worked live on the other repair jobs I wonder what other little gems await.

Unfortunately the landlord thinks the world to this long established electrician, who from what I gather has not even brought himself up-to-date with the new 18th Edition, and who charges a lot of money for crap like that.

So my friend you have my sympathies and unless you pay for it yourself or can reach an agreement with the landlord you may have to find somewhere else - or get a small generator

The regulations don't specify anything about the size of circuit for a cooker, other than that any circuit should have an ocpd suitable for the required current. Its perfectly normal to put a 20A circuit in for an electric oven, and if there were seperate electric oven and hob I would put a 20A circuit for the oven and usually 32A for the hob.

When you rent a property you view it before you make an offer on it, that is the time to see if the property meets your needs. To rent a property to meet your needs and then expect the landlord to agree to let you change the property to suit yourself is daft.

As for wanting to replace a gas hob with electric, I personally think you're mad, gas hobs are far superior to electric for cooking on.

 

[123]

....

As for wanting to replace a gas hob with electric, I personally think you're mad, gas hobs are far superior to electric for cooking on.

Not these days, induction hobs are far superior to gas for cooking on.