Excessive??? Compact fluorescents failing.

[GBDamo]

Would like to tap into the hive mind a bit.

A customer has approximately seventy suspended ceiling modular lights with TL5C circular fluorescents in and is calling us out roughly every six weeks to change lamps, five or six at a time.

Averaging out gives a lamp life of about 18 months which I don’t think is too bad. No one fitting is constantly blowing lamps.

The fittings are five years old and already a few ballasts have failed.

They have asked me to “test” them to see why the lamps are blowing so frequently.

I have noticed singe marks around the lamp holder and some of the internals are showing signs of heat damage.

Other than ballast output/input and general tightness of connections and lampholder what else would you be looking for?

Or are they just reaching their age and are due replacement?

 

[The Ghost]

I just wonder if the circuit the HF gear is on is mixed with old starter in another area. The two types do not get on well. Apparently transient voltages are not liked by HF. Is there any other gear around the (office/unit/warehouse???) that may cause a similar effect?

 

[Darkwood]

I dunno darkward, laughter eases the savage breast. Its just how far one takes it.

Yes it may but we have forum sections and open threads for such banter, my gripe is derailing someone else's thread and staff having to remove 12 posts that have nothing to do with what the OP posted and especially when he still online at the time replying and trying to answer questions put to him.

 

[GBDamo]

I just wonder if the circuit the HF gear is on is mixed with old starter in another area. The two types do not get on well. Apparently transient voltages are not liked by HF. Is there any other gear around the (office/unit/warehouse???) that may cause a similar effect?

No Vort, the whole place was refitted five years ago.

A mix of these TL5Cs and, T5s and some rare as hens teeth Phillips PL-R compact fluorescents. But importantly all HF.

It’s really only the TL5Cs that are failing.

 

[GBDamo]

Yes it may but we have forum sections and open threads for such banter, my gripe is derailing someone else's thread and staff having to remove 12 posts that have nothing to do with what the OP posted and especially when he still online at the time replying and trying to answer questions put to him.

Can someone delete these distracting posts that are explaining why distracting posts are distracting. ;-)

 

[GBDamo]

As an aside why have a twin lamp fitting fed using a single HF ballast, one lamp fails the whole fitting is down.

 

[The Ghost]

Ok might sound silly or too easy but the TL5C is rated for 22-42w they aren't putting in the 17w lamps maybe, no couldn't be.

 

[GBDamo]

Ha, no not that stupid. They’re the 40W flavour TL5Cs.

Well I say that but the ones I’ve been replacing with are 40W, went of the label rather than the old lamp. Can’t say I checked what the duds were. Now they’re in a coffin at the wholesalers.

Number three on my to do list, check all existing lamps are correct.

Keep these coming I might stretch this out till Friday. :-0

Ok might sound silly or too easy but the TL5C is rated for 22-42w they aren't putting in the 17w lamps maybe, no couldn't be.

 

[Midwest]

Yes it may but we have forum sections and open threads for such banter, my gripe is derailing someone else's thread and staff having to remove 12 posts that have nothing to do with what the OP posted and especially when he still online at the time replying and trying to answer questions put to him.

Thing is, in real life we have a laugh & a joke, whilst working, discussing serious issues, even when we are feeling low. We don't just wait for the proper moment, or limit it to special occasions . Its all part of life's rich tapestry.

Even the OP's enjoys the banter. Hope I'm still here tomorrow, in the literal sense.

 

[telectrix]

soz. thought you said bantam.

 

[GBDamo]

Well, not a very productive day.

All voltages 235-240 and stable as far as I can tell without long term monitoring. Checked every Click distribution box and at one fitting per box, with the lights on.

Did not see a PIR switch whilst there and apparently someone else had set them all to 30 mins which looks ok.

All lamps correct, of the random twenty I checked .

Did find three old fluorescents in the ceiling void that were on. These have been unplugged from the Click boxes.

This does not appear to be a deterioration issue as the maintenance records show a pretty steady rate of failure from installation.

The ballasts are Tridonic so not crap only question left is whether they are compatible with the TL5CS, which I have to call the manufacturer tomorrow.

Hopefully there’s a picture attached showing the ballast.

 

[Leyland30]

This lamp type does not like high switching cycles. Increasing the timer period on the pirs might reduce lamp failure rates.

 

[GBDamo]

This lamp type does not like high switching cycles. Increasing the timer period on the pirs might reduce lamp failure rates.

After talking with Tridonic and Phillips the upshot is they don’t have a problem.

The ballast and lamp are well matched.

PIRs are not cycling too quickly.

The observed failure rate fits within the curve for the Philips master lamp.

The lamp is rated for 16,000 hours but 20% of lamps will go in half that.

Need to do some fairly complex maths when I can be arsed but my gut tells me it’s there or there abouts.

In the process of writing a report that says the above in many more and more fancier words with some graphs and pictures.

Got to justify the charge ;-)

 

[Dillb]

Sounds like the switching could be burning the cathodes out, look at fitting PIRs that dim the lights to a low level rather than switching them off completly.

 

[GBDamo]

Sounds like the switching could be burning the cathodes out, look at fitting PIRs that dim the lights to a low level rather than switching them off completly.

Thought of it but the ballasts are non dimable.

The cost of replacing ballasts, then PIRs is not far off new LED panels.

 

[w0z]

Thought of it but the ballasts are non dimable.

The cost of replacing ballasts, then PIRs is not far off new LED panels.

The leds are going to be a difficult sell on energy saving grounds alone, because the tl5cs are fairly efficient at 3300 lumens/40W but that said none of them apart from the new ones will be producing anything like that. Leds would however maintain their output for longer and be instant on compared to the relatively slow warm-up times of the cfls.