Expanding solar pv setup

[TedM]

No, that's no longer the case. It was the way FiTs was originally setup but DECC changed the rules on that last year. Now, for an extension, you just get whatever the current tariff is at the time you amend your FiTs contract. 12 months, or any other time period, doesn't come in to it at all.

 

[John Allen]

TedM dont suppose you have a link to that change of rules do you please? We have a customer who is adamant that if we add to his install he will get the 43.3p rate for the whole system so it would be nice to show him the DECC ruling.

 

[TedM]

Sure.

The original 2010 FiTs legislation is here: The Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) Order 2010

Note that extensions are handled in the section headed 'Part 4' and the 12 month part is included under sections 2, 3, 4 and 5.

The amended legislation is here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/2364/made

This in section 2(3) deletes the original Part 4 sections 2 and 3 and 2(4) deletes the original 4(b).

There's a complete explanation on my blog here: FiTs loophole closure changes now implemented » Caer Delyn Blog

 

[TedM]

And this is DECC's document that covers the changes:

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...nst/2845-govt-response-cons-treatment-ext.pdf

 

[John Allen]

Thanks TedM much appreciated

 

[lspelectrical]

No, that's no longer the case. It was the way FiTs was originally setup but DECC changed the rules on that last year. Now, for an extension, you just get whatever the current tariff is at the time you amend your FiTs contract. 12 months, or any other time period, doesn't come in to it at all.

I was under the impression that the changes meant if you extended your system within 12 months of the original FIT registration then the whole installation would be based on the current tariff,

but

if it was after 12 months, the original would remain as was, and the extension would be at new rate, but based on installed capacity of both original and extension. Have I read this all wrong?

 

[jupestar]

Something that was touched upon on this thread. If you have a 4KWp system which is receiving 43.3p. and the client wants to up-scale it to a 10KWp system now. So would it get

A) 4KWp at 43.3p, 6KWp at 16.8p
B) 4KWp at 37.8p (the previous 4-10KWp rate), 6KWp at 16.8p
C) 10KWp at 16.8p.

I've assumed the answer would be B, but i'm waiting clarification (which is proving quite hard)

We have someone who has a 3.7KWp system at 43.3p and having seen the production wants to upgrade it to 10KWp. He did the original installation with us but has gone for other quotes, and one off the sales guys has said he will get 3.7KWp at 43.3p, 0.3KWp at 21p and 6KWp at 16.8p.

If it is A then surely there is a few loop holes which need to be closed.

 

[TedM]

I was under the impression that the changes meant if you extended your system within 12 months of the original FIT registration then the whole installation would be based on the current tariff,

but

if it was after 12 months, the original would remain as was, and the extension would be at new rate, but based on installed capacity of both original and extension. Have I read this all wrong?

There is no longer any '12 month period' that applies to extensions. Your description of what happens 'after 12 months' now applies to all extensions irrespective of when they are performed.

 

[TedM]

Something that was touched upon on this thread. If you have a 4KWp system which is receiving 43.3p. and the client wants to up-scale it to a 10KWp system now. So would it get

A) 4KWp at 43.3p, 6KWp at 16.8p
B) 4KWp at 37.8p (the previous 4-10KWp rate), 6KWp at 16.8p
C) 10KWp at 16.8p.

I've assumed the answer would be B, but i'm waiting clarification (which is proving quite hard)

We have someone who has a 3.7KWp system at 43.3p and having seen the production wants to upgrade it to 10KWp. He did the original installation with us but has gone for other quotes, and one off the sales guys has said he will get 3.7KWp at 43.3p, 0.3KWp at 21p and 6KWp at 16.8p.

If it is A then surely there is a few loop holes which need to be closed.

His existing 3.7kW will stay at 43.3p (rising to 45.4p from 1st April) and the balance of 6.3kW would get paid at the current 4-10kW rate of 16.8p.

To get 0.3kW at 21p he would have to do an extension just for that amount before adding the next 6kW - all before 1st April.

 

[jupestar]

His existing 3.7kW will stay at 43.3p (rising to 45.4p from 1st April) and the balance of 6.3kW would get paid at the current 4-10kW rate of 16.8p.

To get 0.3kW at 21p he would have to do an extension just for that amount before adding the next 6kW - all before 1st April.

Hi Ted, Thanks for the response, I have no reason to doubt you are right. But it does seem strange to me. What is to stop a farmer (for example) doing a 4KWp installation on say the 12th May, commissioning it as a 4KWp and getting the 21p FITS. Then on the say 20th May deciding to upgrade to a 10KWp system. and receiving 16.8p on the remaining 6KWp. (assuming EPC rating A and DNO consent). This can't be possible. So i don't understand why the above holds.

Is it just because it was done over two different feed in tariff rate periods it is treated as two installtions even though it is going into one meter?

 

[Gavin A]

as usual, Ted is 100% correct in his answer, and I've had guidance from Ofgem to that affect.

as for the scenario detailed... if they were installed at the same time then they should be registered as being one installation, doing anything else would be fraud.

If it were genuinely someone who had a 4kW system installed, then realised how good a deal it was and decided to install a further 6kW then fair enough they'd end up getting the first 4kW system at the higher rate, but would also presumably end up paying more overall for the whole 10kW installation as it would be done in 2 parts, have 2 separate inverters, 2 meters, 2 lots of electrics, 2 lots of scaffolding etc etc.

Tis all a bit of a murky grey area though I suppose.

 

[jupestar]

as usual, Ted is 100% correct in his answer, and I've had guidance from Ofgem to that affect.

as for the scenario detailed... if they were installed at the same time then they should be registered as being one installation, doing anything else would be fraud.

If it were genuinely someone who had a 4kW system installed, then realised how good a deal it was and decided to install a further 6kW then fair enough they'd end up getting the first 4kW system at the higher rate, but would also presumably end up paying more overall for the whole 10kW installation as it would be done in 2 parts, have 2 separate inverters, 2 meters, 2 lots of electrics, 2 lots of scaffolding etc etc.

Tis all a bit of a murky grey area though I suppose.

Murky grey and open to abuse from unscrupulous installers.

Thanks, Ted and Gavin for responses. That helps - looks like I was the one in the wrong. I think the rules should be tightened. But that is another discussion

 

[TedM]

The reason that DECC changed the legislation, getting rid of the 12 month rule, was to prevent any solar-farm from rushing to install 50kW in July 2011 thereby getting the 30.7p rate and then having 12 months to get the rest of 5MW in place and still get 30.7p for it all. From last October they would only get 8.5p for the 'extension'.

This saved £millions from the FiTs 'budget'. So the small loss of a few 4kW systems being upgraded was seen as well worthwhile.

 

[provr6]

They have closed a loophole by removing the 12 month rule but have opened another one. As soon as you are likely to exceed the 4kw mark (or any of the Fit bands) you may as well register it as seperate installations to get a higher overall return. A friendly installer won't charge for the privilidge as they are still getting the work, just make sure you get an inverter with enough spare capacity.

The Gov't won't like it but its playing them at their own game. Why should you not have a new installation the very next day if it's more profitable and legal?

 

[Gavin A]

The Gov't won't like it but its playing them at their own game. Why should you not have a new installation the very next day if it's more profitable and legal?

the legality in that scenario would be highly dubious, and you'd need to have gone through your paperwork with a very fine toothcomb to even stand a chance of getting that one through as being legal if challenged.

Otherwise it'd be fraud / conspiracy to commit fraud territory, and you'd also find yourself liable for the customer's lost FIT income as you'd have been giving them false professional advice.

Steer well clear IMO.