Facts please

[Essex_]

With the recent debate on the rise in household electrical fires and what could be the reason for this I thought I would put this thread out there.

For info LFB stats
Number of fires

• 2005/06 - 27
• 2006/07 - 28
• 2007/08 - 33
• 2008/09 - 21
• 2009/10 54
• 2010/11 - 73
• 2011/12 - 71
• 2012/13 - 220
• 2013/14 - 253

Alarming stats I think we will all agree.

Please leave this thread free from opinions without backup or evidence. If you have an opinion or some evidence also post your reference so others can access it also.

 

[alanl]

Have you lost access to google?
This one shows loads of photos:
http://www.beama.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/6765B2CA-0CCC-41FA-95CB2CE881EF0246

You can probably identify the CUs from page 67ish - the names have been removed, but some are clearly known by their shape.

This is the damning one from the ESC -"Only one of the five samples failed to ignite when subjected to the glow-wire test":
http://www.----------------------------/mediafile/100015990/Switched-On-25.pdf

So why wasnt anything done then, in 2012?
We've been buying these CU's for a further 2+ years, when it was shown they do not conform to the current British Standards, and we can still fit them until January 2016.
If they are not safe, why are we still allowed to fit them?

 

[telectrix]

You win. I am a newbie. You have gone straight to the heart with that one.

and i't's time you came clean about your fake essex tan. living so close to the thames estuary, it's not a tan, it's rust. :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[trev]

A point worthy of mention, if the fire service cannot pinpoint a cause for a fire they always put it down to an electrical fault.
This is from the horses mouth, my son's rugby coach is a senior firefighter.

 

[telectrix]

that's what i said. us sparks get the blame for most things that go wrong, why not blame us for fires as well?

 

[TJ Anderson]

A point worthy of mention, if the fire service cannot pinpoint a cause for a fire they always put it down to an electrical fault.
This is from the horses mouth, my son's rugby coach is a senior firefighter.

I agree, my 2nd cousin (twice removed) has an uncle who has a niece and her hairdresser has a firefighter as a husband. He would say the same I believe.

 

[telectrix]

I agree, my 2nd cousin (twice removed) has an uncle who has a niece and her hairdresser has a firefighter as a husband. He would say the same I believe.

or is that just gossip in the hairdresser's?

 

[TJ Anderson]

or is that just gossip in the hairdresser's?

It is possible it is just idle gossip and I have considered that angle. In contrast, I have heard (on the grapevine of course) that sometimes there have been discussions in said Hairdresser's that do contain shreds of actual fact albeit cloaked in general flim flam.

 

[snowhead]

London Mayors office says there is an 8% net increase in homes from 2001/2011. These figures show a 260% rise over the same period.

Confirmed by the table in here;
Housing Tenure of Households, Borough - Datasets - London DataStore | London Datastore

BUT, what do LFB call a Household, do they also count Illegal households, that don't appear in the Mayor or ONS figures.

 

[Flanders]

Has the fire brigade looked into the possibility there may be even more fires when the plastic CUs are taken out and replaced with the new metal units not fitted correctly with loose connection, full of holes and with metal sharp edges cutting into cables by some fly by night company that jumps on the band wagon using the stats to scare people into replacing there perfectly good CU .IF they say we can't remove human error using a metal CU does not solve the problem just courses a load of new ones, as stated the cables will still burn and so will the plastic blanks unless we have to use metal ones I know this is not fact but I believe this is what is going to happen. Metal CUs are harder to install than plastic ones so if as stated the plastic ones are not installed correctly coursing fires then it can only make it worse installing a metal one incorrectly.

 

[Essex_]

Has the fire brigade looked into the possibility there may be even more fires when the plastic CUs are taken out and replaced with the new metal units not fitted correctly with loose connection, full of holes and with metal sharp edges cutting into cables by some fly by night company that jumps on the band wagon using the stats to scare people into replacing there perfectly good CU .IF they say we can't remove human error using a metal CU does not solve the problem just courses a load of new ones, as stated the cables will still burn and so will the plastic blanks unless we have to use metal ones I know this is not fact but I believe this is what is going to happen. Metal CUs are harder to install than plastic ones so if as stated the plastic ones are not installed correctly coursing fires then it can only make it worse installing a metal one incorrectly.

I think there is a misconception that NC dist. Boards can only be metal. There is bound to be non-metallic boards that will be released. That is why the reg has 12 months grace period - to give the manufacturers a chance to design them. If it were only metal boards that would comply then why would they need 12 months. Metal boards are already here.

 

[Dcf]

I spoke to my one of my brothers in law who has been in the fire service for 20 years about this.
he says it is difficult to find the seat of a fire unless there is something like petrol used which leaves a tell tale residue behind.
electrical faults get the blame for a lot of things apparently.
so I would agree with trev on this one.
heres a poser for you at a job I was at yesterday.
changed some sockets for stainless in a kitchen a few weeks back.
tested the ring all fine.
did a loop check 360 ohm. Ok.
did a Ze 350 ohm right then
got the woman to phone the dno who came out the next day and tried to put the blame onto me
saying there was nothing wrong!
apart from the fact that there was Sparks and stuff coming from the earth in the house and the line tap at the overhead when the dno boy touched it.
the question is how long has this house had no earth?
you don't blow fuses with no earth so where does the fire start .in the plastic fuseboard.
which was previously fine until a fault on the supply side.
stats? Yeah right.

 

[Essex_]

This worth a watch:

http://youtu.be/7dJTAKp3Vts

CU, head etc is all still in tack but the fire started within the CU has caused so much damage.

This is what this reg is trying to prevent.

 

[Engineer54]

Have you lost access to google?
This one shows loads of photos:
http://www.beama.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/6765B2CA-0CCC-41FA-95CB2CE881EF0246

You can probably identify the CUs from page 67ish - the names have been removed, but some are clearly known by their shape.

This is the damning one from the ESC -"Only one of the five samples failed to ignite when subjected to the glow-wire test":
http://www.----------------------------/mediafile/100015990/Switched-On-25.pdf

So why wasnt anything done then, in 2012?
We've been buying these CU's for a further 2+ years, when it was shown they do not conform to the current British Standards, and we can still fit them until January 2016.
If they are not safe, why are we still allowed to fit them?

I don't understand WHY the manufacturers of CU's that don't have any flame retardant haven't been named and shamed in these reports, As you say, why wasn't trading standards involved when the results of these tests were know? Well i do know, as they will all be members of BEAMA and contributers to the ESC. Come to that, where was BS, in allowing non fire retardant CU's to continue holding a satisfactory/approved BS number?

As for the photo's, well i saw a hell of lot of fire damage to rooms, but only two CU's that were completely destroyed, one looking as though it had come out of the ark certainly (going by the internal components) not one that had been installed in the last 20 years or so . The other CU's were all basically intact, a bit of melting for sure, but looking very much like the external cables being more the cause of the fire rather than the CU enclosure itself...

Looking at that glow wire test, what happened after the current was turned off, nothing was ever stated whether the flames self extinguished or not?

 

[tazz]

This worth a watch:

http://youtu.be/7dJTAKp3Vts

CU, head etc is all still in tack but the fire started within the CU has caused so much damage.

This is what this reg is trying to prevent.

Members installing them in train stations.....??

 

[Knobhead]

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Doesn't this new Reg only apply to domestic?
We should be ok to install them in train stations.

 

[Marvo]

I believe there's specific safety issues with train stations......

 

[telectrix]

yup!

 

[ruston]

View attachment 28280yup!

That's not in the UK though!

 

[Engineer54]

This worth a watch:

http://youtu.be/7dJTAKp3Vts

CU, head etc is all still in tack but the fire started within the CU has caused so much damage.

This is what this reg is trying to prevent.

I don't know about anyone else, but i couldn't make out much at all from this video clip. The video was zipping around all over the place, far to dark for most of it's legnth far to close or otherwise
blurred!!!