Fairly making money by sub-contracting - New Business Startup

[puffy]

So far job-hunting sucks but I'm always trying. My background is really web development/programming and business but I love electrical installation with a passion but never seem to landed that job so I've decided to give the business side of me another go.

This post is no way advertising but rather to get your deep opinion on the subject.

I am building a website, an interactive one. It will no way, shape or form be similar to ratedpeople. I've used it, never liked it. So let us not discuss that business here. About the website/ mobile app:

1. User logs in
2. User selects house type etc
3. User tells us what needs to be doing etc
4. Maybe pictures / video of the areas etc - this is important to the business

This business will solely sub-contract the job out and we would take 10% - 15% off the profit (when all expenses removed) would that be reasonable? The difficulty I face is that most jobs require an onsite quote. Since I know technology very will, I can use a beautiful app for tradesman. It has killer features where the sub-contractor would do the site visit and finalise the quote based on the customer price range. The customer will select their budget so we know for sure that he/she would give the go ahead once we stick to the price range or give them some wow factor if we go above their budget.


The trust relationship

Sub-contractors will know the actual cost of the project that's why we say the business will take 10% - 15% as we will process all transaction online and with handy technologies which you will use and those techs cost money. Is the percentage range fair?

About the business

We advertise heavily. We give you t-shirts and mobile app. You invoice us after the job is completed. You get paid by BACs. We would minus CIS or you pay your own. Legal way of doing things will be reviewed. We have our own guys to sign off work. We make you happy, you make us happy. Win, win.

 

[Spoon]

I try things no matter if someone says it's a waste of time.

Like trying to break through a brick wall by running at it head first.... I bet you luv my posts....

 

[sean_ork]

And NASA's pen failed because they tried. I have not. Big difference. I try things no matter if someone says it's a waste of time. I'm not re-inventing any wheels here.

I'm not knocking you for tying, but going against what you've been told on here is akin to the Russians knowing that a pencil will work, ignoring advice, and spending millions trying to reinvent the pencil.

I wish you well, I hope you have very deep pockets, or are lucky enough to find someone daft enough to fund you.

 

[puffy]

Like trying to break through a brick wall by running at it head first.... I bet you luv my posts....

What if those bricks are made of plastics?

 

[puffy]

I'm not knocking you for tying, but going against what you've been told on here is akin to the Russians knowing that a pencil will work, ignoring advice, and spending millions trying to reinvent the pencil.

I wish you well, I hope you have very deep pockets, or are lucky enough to find someone daft enough to fund you.

Actually 15 customers (home owners) told me it's a good idea plus two well-known companies said the same. Now 15 customers are good to start with.

I'm a developer myself and I have little cash for server hosting and that's all I need along with those 15 customers.

 

[Spoon]

Why don't you make an app that checks if a house has had a survey. If it has then you can view it for £1.

The reason why I say that is the first house I had a survey done on has faulty foundations. I kicked off at the estate agents cause they must have known this before I spent hundreds of pounds getting the survey done.

I wish I could have send the survey so someone and then the next person who wants a survey on the house will not waist lots of money like I did.

 

[puffy]

Why don't you make an app that checks if a house has had a survey. If it has then you can view it for £1.

The reason why I say that is the first house I had a survey done on has faulty foundations. I kicked off at the estate agents cause they must have known this before I spent hundreds of pounds getting the survey done.

I wish I could have send the survey so someone and then the next person who wants a survey on the house will not waist lots of money like I did.

Not.....really what Im after. Just to be clear, Im creating an interactive website.

 

[sean_ork]

Actually 15 customers (home owners) told me it's a good idea plus two well-known companies said the same. Now 15 customers are good to start with.

I'm a developer myself and I have little cash for server hosting and that's all I need along with those 15 customers.

Hosting, so £10 a month - where's the money for all the tee-shirts and advertising going to come from ?

About the business

We advertise heavily. We give you t-shirts and mobile app.

 

[Spoon]

Im creating an interactive website.

Hope it does go as planned, but personally I cant see it working, the way you have described it.

 

[puffy]

Hosting, so £10 a month - where's the money for all the tee-shirts and advertising going to come from ?

Hosting for web apps ranges from £35+ a month. I have x amount of cash for tees. Advertising: facebook and trade shows. I know where my targeted audiences are.

Hope it does go as planned, but personally I cant see it working, the way you have described it.

I feel I have not worded properly. I'll have a re-read of what Ive said later.

 

[sparksburnout]

This is just another typical example of someone trying to get involved in something they obviously know nothing about. Most bigger domestic customers/jobs DO NOT work in a such a set way, and most of them want and appreciate a personal involvement and willingness to discuss things ON THE GROUND as jobs progress. As someone said at the beginning, this is just rated people.
It goes like this for your information: Customer rings sparky, sparky goes round to customer, discusses job, agrees a price. Sparky does job, along with any other "while you are here" bits, makes customer happy, gets paid, goes back next time, simple. Everyone is happy. If it ain't busted don't try and fix it, that's what wrong with things these days.........

 

[sparksburnout]

And also, what you probably don't realise, is that a lot of our work will be word of mouth from other customers who have used a certain spark before and know they do a good job, rather than using some faceless company who rely on apps and a bunch of subby's with no idea of what they actually do. You will never have time to vet them and even if you did how would you do it??

 

[Spoon]

This is just another typical example of someone trying to get involved in something they obviously know nothing about. Most bigger domestic customers/jobs DO NOT work in a such a set way, and most of them want and appreciate a personal involvement and willingness to discuss things ON THE GROUND as jobs progress. As someone said at the beginning, this is just rated people.
It goes like this for your information: Customer rings sparky, sparky goes round to customer, discusses job, agrees a price. Sparky does job, along with any other "while you are here" bits, makes customer happy, gets paid, goes back next time, simple. Everyone is happy. If it ain't busted don't try and fix it, that's what wrong with things these days.........

sounds like he's not prepared to do any jobs that are under £3k and he has 15 of them up to now...... we will see how things go....

 

[Midwest]

OP I've only skimmed over your business proposal, but apart from you making money (and no one can be knocked for that), you seem to be trying invent a solution for the age old problem for customers finding a reliable tradesperson, or selling that to your customers.

There are several business out there at the moment trying to do the exact same thing, and you'll find little support here for that here, I feel. Some of these business, are government approved schemes, which I and others here pay handsomely for the privilege of being a member, so I can't see another being a viable goer, IMO.

Perhaps you could direct your IT skills in another direction?

 

[newtothis]

Again, just skim read.
I can't figure out how you're "fairly making money from sub-contracting" when you haven't been awarded any contracts to sub out.

 

[Welchyboy1]

No decent, self respectable sparky is going to give you 10-15% of their profit!

decent tradesmen really dont need setups like this, they are so few and far between they are usually turning work away

all youll get is muppets signing up like all the other lead generating sites !

, and your going to have to spend a pretty penny in advertising to compete in that already over crowded market!!

amazes me how everyone wants to be a middleman nowadays and skim off the top rather than doing a bit of graft themselves!

 

[puffy]

OP I've only skimmed over your business proposal, but apart from you making money (and no one can be knocked for that), you seem to be trying invent a solution for the age old problem for customers finding a reliable tradesperson, or selling that to your customers.

There are several businesse out there at the moment trying to do the exact same thing, and you'll find little support here for that here, I feel. Some of these business, are government approved schemes, which I and others here pay handsomely for the privilege of being a member, so I can't see another being a viable goer, IMO.

Perhaps you could direct your IT skills in another direction?

Not sure what other people are doing but they are going at it wrong. There will be some who agree while others don't. Let's look at ratedpeople. Good business model but bad for contractors. My business model will be bullet proof. I think most of you feel that I'll be picking up random subs to do the job etc. No. I'll have a hand selected of subs for the jobs in every city eventually.

It's not about me making money, I'm going with the flow of advance technology where someone can request these sort of work with just few clicks of a button, subs know what work is required, get job done and we all are happy.

I cant build this website in a day or two. Research is needed and those feedbacks come from reputable companies like you. Members on here style sparks as if they dont know what they're doing or assume everyone are "school kids" that knows jack. I was once on a swa installation and one of the guys treated me as if i dont know what 1 + 1 is or whats a "grips". We compete with each other too much in this business. It's pathetic. Arent we grown *ss adults?

 

[Andy78]

15% is unreal ! All that is going to achieve is making it a nailed on certainty that the customer will have to pay more for using your service as the shortfall in the contractor's pocket will be passed on directly to the customer.

Are you aware of the business overheads currently experienced by contractors and the margins they work to? If you are you should know that asking as much as 5% and still expecting the contractor's quote to be competitive in the local market is bordering on the unrealistic.

A customer of mine is building a similar service and has the right idea. It's free for contractors and customers to use. They take voluntary donations from satisfied contractors.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Here's a novel idea, people could go here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=r...ndroid-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

And get their work done 5/10/15% cheaper because there doesn't really need to be yet another middle man. If you look beyond the various sites in that link that basically offer a very similiar service then there is competentperson.com, trustmark etc.

Also a lot of people are using social media now to get word of mouth recommendations from friends etc. Nothing personal, but I hope your proposed venture never finds wings.

 

[Octopus]

Most of my customers wouldn't touch your "type" of business with a barge pole!

if you have any doubt, that's a resounding NO from me!

 

[dansk]

You'd be better off building a "rogue customer" website that we can all subscribe to and share details behind secure login

 

[joehat]

Sounds like rated people

Yep agree

 

[NDG Elecs]

You'd be better off building a "rogue customer" website that we can all subscribe to and share details behind secure login

Now THAT I would pay for!!

 

[Octopus]

You'd be better off building a "rogue customer" website that we can all subscribe to and share details behind secure login

We can rate them on :

1. Changing their minds
2. Changing the dates
3. Questioning the work
4. Meddling
5. Late payment
6. "short" payments

 

[Andy78]

We can rate them on :

1. Changing their minds
2. Changing the dates
3. Questioning the work
4. Meddling
5. Late payment
6. "short" payments

I think number one should be frequency of hot drinks provided. I did a 6 hour job the other day and got 6 drinks ! discount is already set for their next job !

 

[Octopus]

I think number one should be frequency of hot drinks provided. I did a 6 hour job the other day and got 6 drinks ! discount is already set for their next job !

I was concentrating on the "painful" clients.... so a "positive" side would be good too .....

 

[Andy78]

I was concentrating on the "painful" clients.... so a "positive" side would be good too .....

I sort of meant that. Lack of tea is number one on my pet hates list. Not getting paid and messing you about just compounds the primary issue

 

[sparksburnout]

Most of my customers wouldn't touch your "type" of business with a barge pole!

if you have any doubt, that's a resounding NO from me!

This is the point i was trying to make earlier. The OP just does not understand what the customer really wants. Word of mouth, recommendations, local, reliable tradesmen. None of my customers would touch them with one either, and why would they? Sorry, I hope it falls on its face as well, it will be a bleak day when it flourishes.

 

[rwood1981]

15% is unreal ! All that is going to achieve is making it a nailed on certainty that the customer will have to pay more for using your service as the shortfall in the contractor's pocket will be passed on directly to the customer.

Are you aware of the business overheads currently experienced by contractors and the margins they work to? If you are you should know that asking as much as 5% and still expecting the contractor's quote to be competitive in the local market is bordering on the unrealistic.

A customer of mine is building a similar service and has the right idea. It's free for contractors and customers to use. They take voluntary donations from satisfied contractors.

Its a no from me,im out!!!!

 

[sparksburnout]

Yep agree

I think it should read BErated people?

 

[puffy]

I bet if I have said there will be no fees, all sarcasms would be dropped, you'd raise from the childish responses to manhood responses, huh?

Can we all just erase x% fees for now? Your minds are not seeing the website's model and how it will (not would) work. While I agree that customers do not normally know what they want, if when they do once the work has started they may want a change. I am not creating a website not know the ins and outs of this business. I was in it but with temp contracted work. I know what I want.

Normally when someone has an idea they expresses it with minimal and once we have an MVP (Minimal Valuable Product) we will show the world for better feedback. There, the idea can be scrapped or praised.

Things to note: The website will not have a registration button for subs, only for customers. Thanks to:

No I think I got it. You are planning to waste customers time and your own time by allowing the customer to select a budget that you then have to tell them is unrealistic. Why not have a system that allows them to pick what they want e.g. number of sockets, type, number of light fittings type, details about the house etc etc and then tells them a price range final price to be confirmed following contractor visit?

I shall create such website so that at the end, a set price is given. Either I have my own guys go out to finalize the work (pricing) then have a sub carry out the work. If you have missed it, once a price is given, on the website, the customer can decline or agree so once we visit, the work is already sure.

For the curious, I have put £50 on a google advert and I have gotten voicemail on my mobile phone for work. Work is out there you only need to know where and how to find it.

I could easily create a website that has electrician post their business etc, profile etc but too many out there. Since money is important let me clarify. There will be a fee taking from the net profit. A job cost £3000, materials and gas for £2000 (assuming here), I will take x% of £1000. So please stop singing on the 15%.

Before you visit the customer, you'll know what house type, inside of the house with pictures, videos, type of work needed, when to start, empty or occupied house/flat etc, materials needed, direction to, distance and travel time, your money is sure.

How will I find these subs? I'll ask the mods on here to advertise then we will meet in person at your business and we take it from there. Since I live in Birmingham then a Birmingham sub will be needed first.

 

[Spoon]

Before you visit the customer, you'll know what house type, inside of the house with pictures, videos, type of work needed, when to start, empty or occupied house/flat etc, materials needed, direction to, distance and travel time, your money is sure.

Do most customers really know what materials they need? They just know that they want a tv in the corner. They may forget about the sky/cable box, DVD player, xbox/ps, ethernet connection.
You will only truly find out what materials you need until you visit and chat with the customer.

 

[sparksburnout]

A sparky round my way spent loads of £££££ on getting to the top of the Google rankings, it worked a treat, if you put in "electrician in xxxxxxxx" or almost anything else he was top of the list. Guess how many enquiries he got in the first month? 2 and no jobs. This guy just doesn't get it so you are all wasting your breath. The replies have not been childish, tongue in cheek yes, but essentially realistic. It won't work and people don't want this type of faceless service.

 

[Octopus]

How will I find these subs? I'll ask the mods on here to advertise then we will meet in person at your business and we take it from there. Since I live in Birmingham then a Birmingham sub will be needed first.

Hum... beware all you Brum guys!

 

[puffy]

Do most customers really know what materials they need? They just know that they want a tv in the corner. They may forget about the sky/cable box, DVD player, xbox/ps, ethernet connection.
You will only truly find out what materials you need until you visit and chat with the customer.

Materials? They dont but I should have mentioned that once a contractor has visited then I will have that information. In regards to an automated home, I have that covered

A sparky round my way spent loads of £££££ on getting to the top of the Google rankings, it worked a treat, if you put in "electrician in xxxxxxxx" or almost anything else he was top of the list. Guess how many enquiries he got in the first month? 2 and no jobs. This guy just doesn't get it so you are all wasting your breath. The replies have not been childish, tongue in cheek yes, but essentially realistic. It won't work and people don't this type of faceless service.

I live on the internet so I know things that I wont put on here so I know how to get customers so let's leave it at that. But a clue is, when a customer visits your website, you have 2 seconds to catch their attention or else they're gone but I'm not debating on "getting jobs/customers" that's my job. If you say it wont work then I'm eager to find out.

You know what's funny? I say you that "hey Jim I can get you some work and this is how I will get them". You turn around to say "nahhh mate that wont work". Instead y'all just could have said "ok mate, you may could change this up a bit, add this and remove this but here's my number so when you get a customer, hit me up".

Hum... beware all you Brum guys!

Sorry for your bad experience.

 

[hightower]

After reading your last post my 'manhood response' would be you have delusions of grandeur. I'm starting to believe this is nothing more than a wind up.

 

[Spoon]

Materials? They dont but I should have mentioned that once a contractor has visited then I will have that information. In regards to an automated home, I have that covered

You know what's funny? I say you that "hey Jim I can get you some work and this is how I will get them". You turn around to say "nahhh mate that wont work". Instead y'all just could have said "ok mate, you may could change this up a bit, add this and remove this but here's my number so when you get a customer, hit me up".

Again, most customers don't know what they need. You are putting a quote out on what they input to your site. Then you guy turns up, chats with the customer and then adds loads of material to the quote. Price goes up by quite a lot.

It's great that you always look on the bright side. We have some managers here that do that. They can suggest something and when you tell them that it can't work they say they you are "being negative" or just brush your comments aside. Then down the line there is another meeting about why is this project not going to plan...... We can all stick our heads in the sand and think everything is fine.

 

[puffy]

After reading your last post my 'manhood response' would be you have delusions of grandeur. I'm starting to believe this is nothing more than a wind up.

I dont have any "mental illnesses". But I'll stop here and create the picture (have the website up) so you'll see.

 

[Spoon]

I dont have any "mental illnesses". But I'll stop here and create the picture (have the website up) so you'll see.

Do you have one of those tacky '--- many people have visited this site' on it? It could be a good way of getting your count...

 

[puffy]

Again, most customers don't know what they need. You are putting a quote out on what they input to your site. Then you guy turns up, chats with the customer and then adds loads of material to the quote. Price goes up by quite a lot.

It's great that you always look on the bright side. We have some managers here that do that. They can suggest something and when you tell them that it can't work they say they you are "being negative" or just brush your comments aside. Then down the line there is another meeting about why is this project not going to plan...... We can all stick our heads in the sand and think everything is fine.

Let's set aside my project for a bit and reflect on a real world scenario. I have done many data cabling installations in my past from the age of 18, Im 31 now. When quoting you need to price exactly what the customer wants without adding anything else. Customer wants 4 computers into a room. You the quote exactly for that. Now you needed really are two quotes: Your other quote would derive from asking what data transfer are they doing etc. Then you may say you may need CAT6 and backup why you say CAT6 and those extra wall sockets and/maybe UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) and explain why they would need it. Now the customer builds confident in you and it's up to them to choose what they want or what is best.

The person doing the quotation MUST have experience in that field and professional at it. I maybe a kid but I know my data cabling in and out.

Do you have one of those tacky '--- many people have visited this site' on it? It could be a good way of getting your count...

I use other technologies for such service. I even know which website you were coming from, time spent on what page etc.

 

[hightower]

I dont have any "mental illnesses". But I'll stop here and create the picture (have the website up) so you'll see.

The thing is, (and I've glanced over the thread so forgive me if I'm wrong) I don't think anybody has called you on the technical side. Nobody has said you weren't able to design such a system, so creating 'the picture' proves nothing.

What people have called you on is the business model - that is, whether you will get subbies to do the work, whether you can compete with a local spark who doesn't pay a x% markup, whether your customers really would trust your business front end over "bob who lives around the corner and did a cracking job rewiring my mates house".

I've no doubt you can create an all singing, all dancing website or app. Making it perform as a business with a business model like you propose is where I have doubt. It's going to take a little more than £50 on Google adwords to get it off the ground even. That is why I said you have delusions of grandeur - you seem to have the blinkers on and still can't take on board what seasoned sparks are telling you, that a) decent sparks don't need your service and b) customers won't (for long) pay for services from not-so-decent-sparks.