Faulty fan replacement responsibility?

[KevinH]

Hi all. Has anybody else had an issue with installing a wall mounted 4" extractor fan, only to find after 9 months the customer has contacted me to say it is now leaking an oily substance down the wall and ruined the paintwork.
I am happy to replace the fan free of charge as it is within the guarantee, but he wants to make a claim for the damaged paintwork.
My question is, am I liable to pay for the repairs? even tho I installed the fan according to the manufacturers instructions, if so, how do I go about sorting it? Do I contact the fan supplier to try to get them to cough up? (Unlikey they would), or do I go through my Public Liability Insurance? (which would bump up my premium), Do I just pay the customer out of my pocket to keep him happy? Or do I tell him I'm not liable and It's not my problem?
I always try to keep customers happy, but if it means making me hundreds of pounds out of pocket, I'm happy to cut all ties with said customer and walk away.
Sensible serious answers would be much appreciated as I've never had this issue in 30 years of trading. Thanks.

 

[westward10]

I would not have thought a fan would contain that much oil. Have you looked inside it.

 

[nicebutdim]

Looks very much like a build up of condensation mixed with dust and whatever else gets stuck in ther, but wouldn't expect that if venting directly through a wall. Maybe a slight downward slope on the duct and no backdraught shutter in place allowing rainwater to blow in? As above, there should be nothing oily in the fan other than a tiny amount of grease on the bearing of a better quality fan - certainly nothing that would result in that much staining.

 

[davesparks]

well they obviously haven't cleaned it which is almost certainly a part of the manufacturers instructions so the supplier will probably use that to get out of any claim.

Go and have a look and see if it has been running down the inside/outside of the duct from somewhere or if it is coming out of the fan itself.

 

[oscar21]

You are only ever liable for stuff like this if you have been negligent, your insurer wont pay out if you fitted it correctly.

Nothing inside a fan to leak like that anyway, looks like rainwater to me.

 

[littlespark]

Is that tight to the ceiling?

If so, then when the hole was originally cored… probable from inside… it’s had to go upwards, as they wouldn’t have got high enough with the drill to be horizontal, never mind downwards.

Which suggests a downward slope into the room.

 

[Teddy Lop]

As said no way that's come from the fan. Assuming vent-through-wall - there's not a long duct attached for condensate to form? These can be aggro.

You didn't say the fan had stopped working either? TBH if the clients first instinct is to stamp their feet and demand paint rectification then you're better off cutting them loose.. even if your fault it's one of those things rational folk would at most be annoyed by but suck up

 

[Pretty Mouth]

As others have said, this is almost certainly condensation due to poorly installed ducting. Possibly some flexi duct that has low areas in its run, that have taken a few months to fill up with condensation before being able to drain back to the fan.

Assuming you didn't install the ducting yourself, then it's neither your materials, nor your workmanship that's at fault, so it's not on you. I would let them know it's likely to be condensation, visit to confirm, and quote to put right if feasible. (And charge for the visit, someone else's bodge is not your responsibility)

 

[UNG]

To install a fan in that position and get the cover on is not possible as you couldn't hook the cover onto the backplate and secure it with the screw at the bottom of the housing, so what came first the fan or the ceiling, given the fan looks wonky it looks likely to me that the dropped ceiling came after the fan
Looking at the footprint of the stain it doesn't look like it all if any of it comes solely from the fan although without closer inspection of the fan, the duct and external outlet it is difficult to apportion blame

The only time I have had a problem with a fan was a replacement ceiling mounted on an existing duct it tripped the RCD about 6 months after installation on inspection the fan had more than just condensation in it, the existing duct had been badly installed with the outlet a few inches above a flat roof with heavy rain and the wind in the optimum direction water was being driven into the duct and down to the fan ended up installing a condesation trap to drain away any water ingress and also sloped the horizontal duct down towards the external outlet

 

[timhoward]

A long time ago I somehow managed to fit the outside grill upside down (!) so in heavy driving rain the the louvres were funnelling rain water in. It looked very similar to your picture. I had to hold my hand up to my mistake as I had created an irrigation system!

As others have said, investigating what happens behind the fan is next step - is it straight through wall or ducting, is it water tight, does it pass through a cold loft in uninsulated duct etc. etc.

Regarding responsibility it will likely come down to whether you fitted the fan, or provided the ventilation route too.
Worst case, ask the customer to let you fix it, let it dry out properly, and paint it. It shouldn't cause financial ruin.

 

[KevinH]

Thanks for all your replies.
Just to clarify, it was me who cored the hole out (from outside) and it was cored out level not on any slope (ideally I wanted to slope it downwards to outside but the fan spigot is 4" deep and wouldn't have fitted into the duct if sloped so had to be level).
I fitted a solid duct through the external wall and a fixed louvred grill outside (yes with the louvres facing down)! I even siliconed around the outside of the grill to prevent water seeping behind the grill.
It is a humidity fan installed in a small open plan lounge/kitchen in a downstairs flat. Installed more over the lounge end as no wall space in kitchen area.
Don't know if it makes a difference, but original install was requested as it was a VERY damp flat with mould everywhere which has since been removed and redecorated. Could it be simply a case of the fan not being able to cope with amount of moisture? I can't visit job until Thursday so can't give any more info

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Thanks for all your replies.
Just to clarify, it was me who cored the hole out (from outside) and it was cored out level not on any slope (ideally I wanted to slope it downwards to outside but the fan spigot is 4" deep and wouldn't have fitted into the duct if sloped so had to be level).
I fitted a solid duct through the external wall and a fixed louvred grill outside (yes with the louvres facing down)! I even siliconed around the outside of the grill to prevent water seeping behind the grill.
It is a humidity fan installed in a small open plan lounge/kitchen in a downstairs flat. Installed more over the lounge end as no wall space in kitchen area.
Don't know if it makes a difference, but original install was requested as it was a VERY damp flat with mould everywhere which has since been removed and redecorated. Could it be simply a case of the fan not being able to cope with amount of moisture? I can't visit job until Thursday so can't give any more info

Ok, that changes everything. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong with the installation, and if this was condensation, I'd have expected it to have occurred back during the winter months, not to wait till summer time. I wonder if this could be a combination of heavy rain and unusual wind direction driving water through the duct?

 

[littlespark]

You didn’t core through a hidden drain pipe or something?

Laugh, but it wouldn’t surprise me the way some houses are built.


Did they treat the old mould or simply paint over it? Might be old stuff seeping through… but funny being only under the fan.

I’m betting mould was caused by lots of cooking with no windows open. Mechanical extract fans work better where there’s fresh air being pulled in from somewhere else.

 

[davesparks]

If that is extracting from a kitchen then the oily substance is probably the same greasy goo that builds up in all kitchen extractors.

If that's the case then the extraction hasn't been designed correctly for what it is intended to extract.

 

[oscar21]

Could be anything, maybe the roof is leaking into the cavity and the fan is the outlet for it. Go and have a look, I would so I could hopefully say "not my job mate".

 

[KevinH]

Ok guys, after a visit to the job I can confirm the fan contains no oil as it's just a dry motor inside a dry casing. The oily substance was actually from airborne grease in the open plan lounge/kitchen coming from the recirculating cooker hood extractor! There were no charcoal filters fitted and the grease filters have not been changed for years! When in use, it was just chucking greasy air straight into the room. Looks like the grease was sticking to the fan blades and casing and seems to be slowing the fan down. No wonder the 4" fan couldn't extract properly. I told him they are not designed for greasy environments, only moist air.
I got him to pay for me to replace the fan and he accepted it was not my responsibility to pay for the paint damage.

 

[littlespark]

good outcome.

have you recommended the filters?
but really, is it possible to extract the cooker hood out the wall?

 

[KevinH]

good outcome.

have you recommended the filters?
but really, is it possible to extract the cooker hood out the wall?

Met landlord on site as he lives not far away and showed him which filters he needed so he could see for himself.
Cooker is on inside wall of a ground floor flat and only possible route for external ducting across top of wall units is impeded by the boiler flue, so it has to be recirc.
Yes....good result. I could have just blocked his number and cut all ties but now glad I went back as he's happy with my explanation and I still get to keep another customer for future work.