Fcu

[Dave OCD]

There's so many things that can go wrong after a job is complete, hundreds of times I've fitted a FCU in an outbuilding [fed in 2.5] to fuse down from a socket to a lighting point and I normally fit a 3 amp fuse in the switched/fused spur, but the chances are that if it fails someone will stick a 13amp fuse in...

 

[uksparks]

Yes every time, almost guaranteed, I'm guilty of it too

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

He said what if someone upgrades the FCU to a 20A. What I think is fair point

 

[Richard Burns]

Someone replacing a maximum 13A accessory with a 20A circuit breaker in a box would really be pushing the limits of what you can sensibly foresee.
You might as well also say what happens if someone replaces the 32A breaker at the origin with a 63A breaker, this is just as likely to happen and yet you do not wire the entire circuit in 16mm² just in case.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Napit exam I had, I f up on not knowing the circuits in and out and the meter (only worked on college fluke, should know the tools in and out and what and.Why)

 

[HappyHippyDad]

If you have fitted an FCU into the ring then the cable on the load side of the FCU can be 1.5mm² as the current is limited to 13A and 1.5mm² is the minimum csa for power.

If you take a 1.5mm² cable and join it to the ring and then put an FCU on the end of the then the 1.5mm² cable may be able to take the full 32A current and this would be incorrect.
It is technically permissible as backward fusing but generally would not be correct without care.

We could say this about any spur taken from a ring though couldn't we Richard. A single 2.5mm may not be able to take the full 32A? I would always use 2.5mm to supply a FCU but in theory 1.5mm would be ok (1mm if fused appropriately!). This could perhaps also be justified with reg 433.3.1?

If you wanted to use the cooker circuit to feed a FCU for the hob ignition would you use 6mm to feed the FCU? I have read reg 433.3.1 as meaning the FCU could be fed with an appropriately sized conductor depending on the characteristics of the load. So if the FCU has a 13A fuse it can be fed with a 1.5mm conductor? I'd still use a 2.5mm but I guess 1.5mm would be acceptable as long as Zs was ok?

ps.. Probably didn't need to write all of that as you already know it and have mentioned it in your last sentence! :smile5: I just find it an interesting point to debate!

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

We could say this about any spur taken from a ring though couldn't we Richard. A single 2.5mm may not be able to take the full 32A? I would always use 2.5mm to supply a FCU but in theory 1.5mm would be ok (1mm if fused appropriately!). This could perhaps also be justified with reg 433.3.1?

If you wanted to use the cooker circuit to feed a FCU for the hob ignition would you use 6mm to feed the FCU? I have read reg 433.3.1 as meaning the FCU could be fed with an appropriately sized conductor depending on the characteristics of the load. So if the FCU has a 13A fuse it can be fed with a 1.5mm conductor? I'd still use a 2.5mm but I guess 1.5mm would be acceptable as long as Zs was ok?

ps.. Probably didn't need to write all of that as you already know it and have mentioned it in your last sentence! :smile5: I just find it an interesting point to debate!

Very glad you did a full reason and ref to the point in the regs thank you
And all, positive and directing a person to information is a good way to learn and get things to sink in to ones head

 

[ackbarthestar]

Napit exam I had, I f up on not knowing the circuits in and out and the meter (only worked on college fluke, should know the tools in and out and what and.Why)

As a continuation. Think of me as a Devil's advocate.

Do you not think that your NAPIT assessor was testing you to see how much you knew by questioning and challenging your answers?

As the Big bad world out there is filled with Gas fitters, Plumbers, kitchen fitters, part P pirates, scammers, power freaks, four legged creatures all with their own agendas and opinions out to convince you that you are completely wrong and not worth a jot.

My advice would be:
1/ get to know your way round the regs.
2/ Practice using your test instruments
3/ read up on the principles of electricity
4/ Do a course in English Language.


My personal opinion is that it is common practice to spur lighting, to garages etc, from a FCU on a RFC using 1.5mm2 cable.
It is also acceptable to run unlimited number of sockets in 1.5mm2 from a FCU on a RFC.
It is also acceptable to run a 2.5mm2 radial off a 32A MCB from the origin of a RFC supplying a double socket outlet.
Whether you would or not depends on who you want to upset as people have very fixed ideas about what you can do on certain sites.
You will find all the information in the regs.

 

[Richard Burns]

We could say this about any spur taken from a ring though couldn't we Richard. A single 2.5mm may not be able to take the full 32A? I would always use 2.5mm to supply a FCU but in theory 1.5mm would be ok (1mm if fused appropriately!). This could perhaps also be justified with reg 433.3.1?

If you wanted to use the cooker circuit to feed a FCU for the hob ignition would you use 6mm to feed the FCU? I have read reg 433.3.1 as meaning the FCU could be fed with an appropriately sized conductor depending on the characteristics of the load. So if the FCU has a 13A fuse it can be fed with a 1.5mm conductor? I'd still use a 2.5mm but I guess 1.5mm would be acceptable as long as Zs was ok?

ps.. Probably didn't need to write all of that as you already know it and have mentioned it in your last sentence! :smile5: I just find it an interesting point to debate!

You are indeed correct.
Where there is not a requirement for overload protection then it need not be provided.
I would tend to wire most cables in a ring final circuit in 2.5mm² except if they were after an FCU (I might still use 2.5mm² after an FCU but only when I am wiring the whole circuit and do not want to change cable.)
For domestic situations I tend to try and keep the cable suitable for overcurrent where practicable but only for covering potential changes really.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

1) Napit Assessor (former teacher at my locale College)
2) Ideal SpliceLine In-Line Wire Connectors Pack of 100 | Leads & Connectors | Screwfix.com
I used connections as i was build it as it went, adding more and making it in to a bigger ring to show it to the Assessor.
One of the Lights, had a connector because i made a error with the Lenght of the cable.
and the Ring had some (Note he only took off one Socket) as i kept added to make 2Way in the Shed with two FCU In the Ring (2.5 to the FCU) and 1.5 to the ONE WAY socket.
[ These the sockets for the FCU were placed behind the Washine Machine and Tumble Dryer as on the side of the wall would Stress the Cable to the lower Machine (Washing Machine) and i used FCS because my Dad wanted to be able to turn them off (watch a News Report of some White Goods (BEKO Fridges) catching Fire, so turns all electricals off at night)

IET Wiring Regs 17th BS2008:2011 Appemdix 15 433.1 Page 425
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=4981ba02a718b051e054a1881b77aeff&oe=560A03D3
I was told this page was WRONG


Also
"The installation of FCU’s feeding socket outlets gives no discrimination between the 13 amp fuse in the FCU and the 13 amp fuse in the plug top.

2. Correct electrical design of the circuit would have resulted in better placement of the sockets to allow for feeding the washing machine and tumble dryer in a safe manner without exposing the equipment to risk of damage. It would also have reduced the number of bends needed for this circuit"


I tried to hug the back of the wall with the Conduit so that when my dad pushing the Tumble Dryer or changes it for anothe Mode he dosnt SMASH the FCU/Sockets off the wall or behind it,
NB the Tumble Dryer was on the Floor so you could get to the ones at the Back, (putting it back on top of the Washing Machine it is very easy to Hit the side of the wall (were they want me to put the Sockets, also wouldnt leave any space for a SOCKET and PLUG.

I will try and Take Photos of the SPOT, ive only just got HOME.. been Posting form a MOBILE phone with no way of LOOKING things up.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

For Devil's advocate. (OK with this)
I did reply when he asked when i had Put the FCU in 1.5 and shown him the Regs Book Appendix 15
Told me it was WRONG it was a Miss Print

And yes i think i am too Bright Eyeed Still (am a bit worried if someone wants to PAY IN KIND one time) LOL .. i guess i hope to managed to get by, by being Honest and Good (ie if its wrong way of doing thigns i dont want to know, just want the correct way)

My advice would be:
1/ get to know your way round the regs. ... I did pass my 17th and i did point out this regs to him but what do i say to a guy who was the Teacher for my Teachers! who says the Regs book was Wrong.. that it was a Miss Print .. what i have found a few miss prints in a few of the Text Books, I think i even Email Brian Scannda (whatever his last name is) and miffed about them miss prints as it was the 3rd-5th edition of the book!!

2/ Practice using your test instruments ... Yes i agree, i was too "COOKY" not happy with myself

3/ read up on the principles of electricity .. do you suggest any books i have a lot of them

4/ Do a course in English Language. .,, i would like to do more English Course as i can see my grammer drops a LOT and spelling, Ive done OCR Level 1 Funkional Skils 1&2 next level is GCSE. Problem is, if i dont use it, i just forget how to do things and the English Courses now are JUST to PASS the Course as thats what they get paid for. I think i need to read more Story books. Been working on Passing these Electrical Course for so long now, being Dyslexic i sooner have hands on that Text book.

 

[shanky887614]

For Devil's advocate. (OK with this)
I did reply when he asked when i had Put the FCU in 1.5 and shown him the Regs Book Appendix 15
Told me it was WRONG it was a Miss Print

And yes i think i am too Bright Eyeed Still (am a bit worried if someone wants to PAY IN KIND one time) LOL .. i guess i hope to managed to get by, by being Honest and Good (ie if its wrong way of doing thigns i dont want to know, just want the correct way)

My advice would be:
1/ get to know your way round the regs. ... I did pass my 17th and i did point out this regs to him but what do i say to a guy who was the Teacher for my Teachers! who says the Regs book was Wrong.. that it was a Miss Print .. what i have found a few miss prints in a few of the Text Books, I think i even Email Brian Scannda (whatever his last name is) and miffed about them miss prints as it was the 3rd-5th edition of the book!!

2/ Practice using your test instruments ... Yes i agree, i was too "COOKY" not happy with myself

3/ read up on the principles of electricity .. do you suggest any books i have a lot of them

4/ Do a course in English Language. .,, i would like to do more English Course as i can see my grammer drops a LOT and spelling, Ive done OCR Level 1 Funkional Skils 1&2 next level is GCSE. Problem is, if i dont use it, i just forget how to do things and the English Courses now are JUST to PASS the Course as thats what they get paid for. I think i need to read more Story books. Been working on Passing these Electrical Course for so long now, being Dyslexic i sooner have hands on that Text book.

then show him the green and red versions that say the same and if they still moan complain about them to there boss lol.

they will intervene there a parasitic organisation and just want your money

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

I think im Flippped on that, as it was just said and not recorded so would be my word agest his.. I have Told NAPIT i am shocked at there Customers Service, that a true worth of a company is shown when there is problems..
All Nice to me and helping before i gave them Money... i Asked over and over again what i could sigh up for, Full Scoope and 3rd Party Testing.. OK! signed up for their Insurace and once that was in placed put in the application, ok with that then my ACESSOOR asked when he could test me, and he told me i was just doing Domestic Scope, i corrected him then Late on a Friday night told me i wasnt doing 3rd party and doing domestic instead of full... Emailed them whats that i mean i can do, phoned them up asking, but it was Late on Friday and said we will call you back some time, Never got back to me.

To me that was Like as someone who was house sitting driving off scream out yes and we have Eatten ever thing in you fridge, cant call them names for doing it as they have Gone. So i said Fair Enought its Cost me £200 for this Assessor (forever telling me he charges £50/hr) and he had another appointment so a Newbie like me wasnt what he wanted really. But Im ok with the FAILD as my fault with the Testing (didnt Train Enough and Panic) So i have to look at the others. Only want to do Domestic really.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Duane.. Please don't take this the wrong way as it is meant as positive critiscm and not as an insult, but I find it really hard to understand what you are saying in your posts due to many incorrectly spelt words and very poor grammar.

If you wrote out a quote for a customer in this way they would not accept your quote.

I'm not sure if I should send this as it's none of my business really, but it is meant in a helpful way so please take it as such.... or tell me to **** off if you want! :smile5:

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Duane.. Please don't take this the wrong way as it is meant as positive critiscm and not as an insult, but I find it really hard to understand what you are saying in your posts due to many incorrectly spelt words and very poor grammar.

If you wrote out a quote for a customer in this way they would not accept your quote.

I'm not sure if I should send this as it's none of my business really, but it is meant in a helpful way so please take it as such.... or tell me to **** off if you want! :smile5:

Mmmm was going to cross that bridge when I come to it
But have support from my family (mother who was a credit controller and I think a court usher also there is a government thing going on for supports, I need to learn as the other jobs are bad, I'm fed up of working for the same company for 16yr with no job and got kicked out because I was doing a electrical cours)

I post was more about questioning the regs book (the Bible). Shocked that the guy said it was wrong (a guy who was a year Cher at my locale college (someone I should look up to))

Appendix 15.. Ring in 2.5mm (6m^2) and FCU on the ring, feeding a socket (single) in 1.5mm (1m long)