Filling in old unused socket holes (with wiring)

[drg0nz0]

Hello,

This is my first post and I hope it's ok to ask for advice even though I'm not an electrician. The forum rules don't seem to preclude this, but if I've got it wrong, I apologise in advance.

I'm renovating a 60s-era flat. The electrical wiring is in conduits embedded inside the walls and ceiling, as well as some in surface-run plastic conduits (creating extra power outlets). One room has 2 unused socket holes. They were covered with plastic plates. One is eye level, the other just above skirting board. The wiring is still inside and cannot be removed/pulled out as it's in the conduit inside the wall (they are in line with each other and I think the bottom one feeds the top one). I'm not sure what they would have been for. There's already one light switch by the door, and 2 lots of power sockets (both created with external conduit wiring, which originates from an internal conduit in a different location on the wall). Also, I'm no electrician but find it odd that there's no stripy earth wire in these 2 sockets (all other light switches and power sockets have it).

I'm going to wallpaper the wall that has these 2 old sockets and don't want any ugly covering plates showing. I don't see any use in these sockets, they look like they've been out of action for decades. But did want to ask if anyone has come across such disused sockets. Can I just turn power off at the fuse board, insulate the cut wire ends, put some stiff card or a piece of plasterboard over the holes, and fill on top with filler? (without having to get an electrician to do something (sorry )




Thank you in advance.

 

[Spoon]

I'm going to wallpaper the wall that has these 2 old sockets and don't want any ugly covering plates showing. I don't see any use in these sockets, they look like they've been out of action for decades. But did want to ask if anyone has come across such disused sockets. Can I just turn power off at the fuse board, insulate the cut wire ends, put some stiff card or a piece of plasterboard over the holes, and fill on top with filler? (without having to get an electrician to do something (sorry )

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Thank you in advance.

Hi drg. Welcome to the forum.
If the cables are dead then it would be better to remove them. Best to get an electrician in, if you don't have the tools and knowledge to do this safely.
If you can find out where the cables go into the floorboards then pull them through the conduit.

 

[drg0nz0]

Thanks for your reply. It's a cement floor (2-floor maisonette, fuse board on ground floor, the room in question is an upstairs bedroom). I'll buy a tool to test whether the wires are live, might provide some clarity..

 

[Spoon]

Thanks for your reply. It's a cement floor (2-floor maisonette, fuse board on ground floor, the room in question is an upstairs bedroom). I'll buy a tool to test whether the wires are live, might provide some clarity..

Be very careful when testing for live wires and post on here what you are thinking of buying to test the wires. Some cheap items are useless.

 

[Darkwood]

In your shoes I would personally get an Electrician out to confirm the redundency of these cables, if they are live for any reason then its not always as simple as cover and forget, cable zoning would be lost if these are hidden from view and the possibility of them been accidentally nailed or drilled increases, if the conduit they are in is still complete and heavy gauge and earthed adequately it may be possible to make some stainless plates that will protect the joints and the use of maintenance free connections could give a solution to plaster over but at a lot of hassle.
I would call a sparks in who could pull the floor up and remove them from the conduit altogether and make them safe (that is if they are not redundant 'dead' cables of course), it could be a 5minute visit or an hour at a guess and worth a call out fee to ensure you're safe and not creating future issues.

I recently helped a freind out who had exactly the same issue albeit the cables had already been buried and plastered over by previous owners... the wall was giving shocks due to damp plaster in contact with a live buried joint, even though it was in a box like yours with a buried cover.. water had collected/condensed in the conduit and joint making the conduit live and thus the area of wall it was buried in was a potential hazard from a nasty shock or worse. If not in use it best to get them confirmed and removed.

 

[Darkwood]

Thanks for your reply. It's a cement floor (2-floor maisonette, fuse board on ground floor, the room in question is an upstairs bedroom). I'll buy a tool to test whether the wires are live, might provide some clarity..

The correct test equipment to use for this would be more expensive than a callout for an Electrician, don't get duped by these B&Q (other stores available) neon drivers and volts sticks they are banned for said voltage indication and proving in our industry and are considered dangerous to rely on as a indicator of a wire been safe or not.

 

[drg0nz0]

In your shoes I would personally get an Electrician out to confirm the redundency of these cables, if they are live for any reason then its not always as simple as cover and forget, cable zoning would be lost if these are hidden from view and the possibility of them been accidentally nailed or drilled increases, if the conduit they are in is still complete and heavy gauge and earthed adequately it may be possible to make some stainless plates that will protect the joints and the use of maintenance free connections could give a solution to plaster over but at a lot of hassle.
I would call a sparks in who could pull the floor up and remove them from the conduit altogether and make them safe (that is if they are not redundant 'dead' cables of course), it could be a 5minute visit or an hour at a guess and worth a call out fee to ensure you're safe and not creating future issues.

I recently helped a freind out who had exactly the same issue albeit the cables had already been buried and plastered over by previous owners... the wall was giving shocks due to damp plaster in contact with a live buried joint, even though it was in a box like yours with a buried cover.. water had collected/condensed in the conduit and joint making the conduit live and thus the area of wall it was buried in was a potential hazard from a nasty shock or worse. If not in use it best to get them confirmed and removed.

Thanks for the additional info. The conduits are buried in the concrete floor (it's the upstairs bedroom of a maisonette, although there is a similar unused, plated-over socket in the downstairs lounge), and within the plaster of the wall (or, seeing as it's quite deep, possibly within a channel inside the thermalite block that the wall's made of, that's been plastered over). So it's not as simple as lifting floor boards. But you're convincing me to call out an electrician, as I indeed can't tell how these conduits run in the walls or what's the purpose of these old wires and whether they're live. An electrician we had come over once said we'll need a new fuse box and that the kitchen will have to go on a "ring" of its own, to comply with current regs. He explained about the conduit system and how the conduit is the earth, and really should not be damaged by accident as that could mean digging up the walls to fix it. It was a free visit and he said he'd need to spend more time examining how the conduits ran, to tell what's really going on.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for the additional info. The conduits are buried in the concrete floor (it's the upstairs bedroom of a maisonette, although there is a similar unused, plated-over socket in the downstairs lounge), and within the plaster of the wall (or, seeing as it's quite deep, possibly within a channel inside the thermalite block that the wall's made of, that's been plastered over). So it's not as simple as lifting floor boards. But you're convincing me to call out an electrician, as I indeed can't tell how these conduits run in the walls or what's the purpose of these old wires and whether they're live. An electrician we had come over once said we'll need a new fuse box and that the kitchen will have to go on a "ring" of its own, to comply with current regs. He explained about the conduit system and how the conduit is the earth, and really should not be damaged by accident as that could mean digging up the walls to fix it. It was a free visit and he said he'd need to spend more time examining how the conduits ran, to tell what's really going on.

Hum... reg number for that?

 

[telectrix]

as murdoch saiys. it is a good idea to put a kitchen on it's own ring final, but there's no "have to do" about it.

 

[drg0nz0]

Hum... reg number for that?

I may well be saying something wrong, it was many months ago. Is there some requirement that all kitchen appliances should be killed off with a single switch/fuse? It may have been that. I don't think that's currently the case.

 

[drg0nz0]

as murdoch saiys. it is a good idea to put a kitchen on it's own ring final, but there's no "have to do" about it.

Ah ok, thanks.

 

[telectrix]

all your kitchen appliances ( apart from cooking equipment come with a fused plug. that is usually sufficient means of isolation. the purpose of a separate ring final for a kitchen is that the kitchen is generally the heaviest load in the house and so it's favorite to have it on it's own circuit, but not essential.

 

[amlu]

got to find out - if they are dead - are they isolated properly? then chop off the wires and fill the hole with some bonding
if something is live then find out where is powered from, disconnect it properly, fill up.
no earth wire - most likely metal conduits have been used to carry earth.

if you are in east/north london i may be able to help, send me a pm if needed.

 

[drg0nz0]

Someone on another forum had this suggestion: "Were the flats originally built with electric heating? The unused holes might have been for switches or thermostats for that system. In fact that looks very likely as the rounded outline for whatever was fitted on the upper socket (round box) looks like the shape of a 1960s thermostat. That would also match having the live in and switched out, and a single neutral for the thermostat accelerator heater. "