Fire Alarm Fraud Sentenced at Manchester Crown Court | Page 2 | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Fire Alarm Fraud Sentenced at Manchester Crown Court in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

A fire officer ............who is no longer with us rest him ...................once told me that there are 3 basic things a fireman needs to know

1 Never get to close to the big Yellow/orangey thing as it might burn
2. Do you like a drink
3. Get to know all the trades in your area as they are useful contacts when you on nights 4 on 4 off.

I'm sure most of this was tongue in cheek and I don't begrudge these lad every penny they earn ..................at their own job I for one would not want to clear up some of the things they do.

Ken I think your right the last actually dispute a month or so back was about changing shift patterns and the chance to moonlight.
 
90% of lads who are fire officers moonlight.
I have just worked with one who was doing kitchen fitting, painting\decorating\plumbing\roofing
Thank god I got called in to do the electrics and supplied cert.

It goes on all the time everywhere, just deal with it, its a fact of life , when given the chance men will moonlight for extra cash

its NOT the end of the world !!!

happy xmas!!!
 
90% of lads who are fire officers moonlight.
I have just worked with one who was doing kitchen fitting, painting\decorating\plumbing\roofing
Thank god I got called in to do the electrics and supplied cert.

It goes on all the time everywhere, just deal with it, its a fact of life , when given the chance men will moonlight for extra cash

its NOT the end of the world !!!

happy xmas!!!

90% of Fire fighters moonlight at other jobs.... My point exactly, about why these people want to defend their shift patterns and refuse to modernise. Of course anyone would moonlight at another job if given the opportunity - its absolutely rife within the public services. However I would expect a Tradesman (either full-time or moonlighting) to be qualified and experienced in the job he was doing for me!!! Lets hope that you never lose out on a contract to someone moonlighting, er...
 
Because of improved fire safety and lower call-out in the US some states use their firefighters as a first response in accidents as they are all trained to paramedic level I can hear the demarcation screams already.
But joking aside someone will get killed with this and as I have said gold plated pensions and benifits should not allow you to run a discounted building company because you can get a few bob and at the same time do not have to worry about any comebacks. Although I would point out the reason for improved fire safety was insurance companies in the states driving it as they were the ones picking up the tab for the damage they would add more premiums to your policy if you did not apply fire safety ie smoke heads ,fire blankets etc now there is a thought ...............
 
It is true that fire safety has improved dramatically over the years in domestic dwellings.

This is less true for commercial based property however, including HMO properties.

As we all know, fire is easily started, and almost always devastating at some level.

We have a right to expect a professional and qualified response from our Fire Services, and by and large we do receive this - if at reduced strength much of the time due to incidents such as those mentioned.

I feel I should mention that although the RRO, Fire Scotland Act, and so on have all moved responsibility for fire safety firmly onto the "responsible person's" (i.e. ours) heads, pretty well every fire service WILL send someone out to advise, should you have any issue with a Fire Risk Assessment that has been carried out on your behalf.

However, it isn't fair to blame reductions in service solely on the fact that statistically around 36% of full time fire fighters have another "paid" occupation, which may impact their duties, as central government cost cutting over the years has also had a big part to play. Many times these days, the Fire Services as a whole are put in the position of having to respond in specific ways due to government interference.

To get back to the point of the thread briefly - this case was intended (and IMO, failed) to highlight the legal obligation on commercial premises to carry out proper and adequate Fire Safety measures. What it has clarified is something businesses like mine have been shouting about for a while now - that although you effectively pass the risk on when you contract an individual or business to provide fire safety services (Risk assessment, Fire alarm maintenance, Extinguishers, Emergency lighting, Signage, etc) you also still retain a degree of culpability where that service is blatantly not provided properly or at all.

The original owners of that home were prosecuted, I am led to believe (and in part for the evident failings on the fire alarm).

What it also highlights, and this is the part which is most relevant to most of us, is that inspection of these areas is on the rise (slowly) and more incidents are being investigated in the case of fire than ever before - critically, more prosecutions are taking place than ever before for failures to meet fire safety laws, and now that the test case has been completed, we can all expect to see many more "trades" people in the dock, because we are now officially an "easy target".

I know of a few Senior Fire Officers who have, if you like a s**t list of premises, and have only been waiting for a case like this, to be able to throw the book.

In short, the impact for trades involved in any way in fire safety is this:

The onus is firmly on you to ensure the DESIGN of any fire safety you undertake is compliant and Certificated.
The onus is firmly on you to ensure the INSTALLATION of any fire safety you undertake is compliant and certificated.
The onus is firmly on you to ensure that ONGOING MAINTENANCE of any fire safety is compliant and certificated.

For clarity, Fire Safety includes:

Fire Detection and Alarm Systems - INCLUDING those installed to BS5839-6 for HMO properties
Emergency Lighting Installations
Fire Extinguisher Installations
Safety Signage Installations

Electrical Installations
The Fire Risk Assessment Itself (where you undertake such)
Miscellaneous Fire Prevention Measures, such as Fire Doors, Escapes, Blankets, Sand buckets, and so on.

Wherever and whenever you undertake ANY work in relation to any area which has an impact on Fire Safety (Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order, Fire (Scotland) Act, Fire Safety Regulations (Northern Ireland) and in Eire, The Fire Services Act, you are implicitly passed responsibility for the fire safety aspects of whatever you are signing off.

As I say, with the test case now confirmed, the flood gates ARE now open.
 
Fire safety is improving but very slowly, I was called to esimate a public house in Surrey, a large 18cent pub made mainly of wood. Suggestions were maked to request a fire provention officer to attend which I was more than happy to agree with. The local fire prevention officer attended and stated a fire alarm system was not required and gave the landlord 6 x battery operated smoke sensors. I was told my services were no longer required
 
Fire safety is improving but very slowly, I was called to esimate a public house in Surrey, a large 18cent pub made mainly of wood. Suggestions were maked to request a fire provention officer to attend which I was more than happy to agree with. The local fire prevention officer attended and stated a fire alarm system was not required and gave the landlord 6 x battery operated smoke sensors. I was told my services were no longer required
Well I am surprised at this as i thought the landlords insurance would have something to say but as long as he gets it in writing from the FPO then the only thing to worry about is who going (if ever) change the batteries. one thing to note however this new government has signaled that it wants to "relax" some rules and regs and the likes of this FPO who are now feeling the wind of change on his back will now start to play politics and interpit rules and regs from a different view point if only to watch it crash and burn to enhance his own importance
 

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