Fire Hoods and Fire rated D/lights

[bugsy]

Only BPG suggests downlighters with integral protection, and I wondered hw the flower pot brigade got round the situation

 

[martysparky]

Only BPG suggests downlighters with integral protection, and I wondered hw the flower pot brigade got round the situation

I guess they could take the BS number off the packaging of the light accessory and apply it to the flower pot. lol
or say it was part of the existing installation as they only changed the accessory. phhhh

 

[ezzzekiel]

the problem is usually i go to look at a job where the customer has just bought 20 dl for a fiver off ebay good deal straight from china

 

[sparks1234]

You can also argue the fact if you have tongue and grooved boards upstairs

 

[martysparky]

You can also argue the fact if you have tongue and grooved boards upstairs

T&G Boards where? floor, ceiling, over plasterboard, No plasterboard?

Did you do it? ect

Good point...

 

[Notsosmart]

I think I know what you mean but after studying the best practice guide I have it down as thats the way.

After all those guides are supposed to be leading the way to new up and coming regs.

I think the moral here is if its safer then its better practice.

Just a my thoughts and thanks for the input.



As far as I can make out reading it sideways much the same.

Best Practice Guides | Electrical Safety Council

ESC; another quango of intellectuals who haven't had the full experience necessary to understand how hard it is to do our job without outside meddling.

Before you lot ---- in the indignation grenades I'm not saying that their best practice leaflets have no value but sometimes common sense gets lobbed out of the window.

 

[robsparky1975]

I must agree with doomed,im having to fit 60 odd gu10 downlights in a 4 bed house and always use fire rated they cover the lamps is one of my main reasons,there is tons of insulation going in but need to keep it at least 50mm clear above and 20mm around sides for heat to dissipate,some people use 4" stink pipe cut to length to protect but the real problem is the loft insulation,regarding the flower pots i cant see why you cant use these because your not adjusting the light fitting only pushing insulation away from it thus preventing heat build up which has got to get a thumbs up from any inspector.

 

[Ohmyword]

Fire rated fittings or fire hoods are only required when compromising the fire resistance between fire compartments.

A standard two storey house is one single fire compartment so not required.

If it has an integral garage with a room above then the garage is one compartment and the house is another. Should you foolishly want down-lighters in the garage then fire rated fittings or hoods would be required.

I can appreciate that this particular post is "quite old" now but I am just at this mo. experiencing a lot of grief on this subject.

I can't go into specific details because my case is "with the court" as we speak.

Amongst a lot of other works, I installed four recessed light fittings in a plaster-board ceiling in the bathroom of a BUNGALOW. I always use JCC fire-rated fittings (they have the intumescent ring - between ceiling and fitting). These were the "open" type and not the "canister, fully enclosed" type. In other words, the lamps were visible from above the ceiling - in the loft. I moved the insulation away from these fittings and installed the transformers up off the ceiling and above the insulation level. Because the invoice "went into dispute" the client got another firm in to carry out a Dom. Electr. Install. Per. Insp. Report. They classed my recessed light job as a Code 4 category because, they explained, "lights not enclosed in loft area". They also provided photo "evidence".

It would appear from what you are saying, that if a two-storey house is one single fire compartment, then a bungalow would definitely also be one fire compartment and not require fire hoods. As stated, these fittings were fire rated models anyhow.

I was, I thought, reliably informed some time ago that "you were only required to use fire rated fittings or hoods if there was living accommodation on the floor directly above said fittings". I thought - no problem here, it's a bungalow!

Could you please provide me with some feed-back and also some guidance in where to look up the ruling for such an installation?

 

[Dazza1976]

Yes Ohmyword, I believe you are right,

Im not sure exactly where it states it, but fire rated lights, or hoods are only necessary, when there is a room directly above the installation.

I tend to fit fire rated lights, regardless of the situation as do other sparks, but it isnt always necessary, like in your case for instance.

Obviously I dont know all the ins and outs of your case, but why dont you ask the people you are having the dispute with, to show you where in the regulations it states this ???

 

[Notsosmart]

First and foremost OMW I trust you have sought legal advice from a competent solicitor with experience in the subject.

Secondly you need to brush up on the iEE regs I suggest: Chapters 13 especially selection and erection of equipment, Chapter 42, chapter 52 especially 527 Selection and erection of wiring systems to minimise the spread of fire.

Remember that the regs defer to manufacturers instructions so if you can prove that
a) the items are BSen approved
b) the items are suitable for the installation
c) you have fitted the items as per manufacturers instructions
then you have gone some way in proving due diligence. ~ If you haven't got a copy of the literature that came with the fittings I would try online or request a copy from the manufacturer, you should also ensure that you have a copy of the receipt to go some way in proving that the fittings you have installed are as you describe.

Thirdly building regulations is another source as to the definition of a fire compartment.

Have a look at the attached document but make sure that you get expert confirmation that the attached is in fact correct and not just someones opinion.

 

[Ohmyword]

It would appear from further investigation that I should have (in hindsight), I think, used the canister (fully enclosed) type. Or formed a "box" around them or fitted smoke hoods. Reading between the lines a little more, I'm thinking that it's not the fire-rated integrity of the ceiling I am being "pulled-up" on, but the open type fitting I have used. The wiring to the lamp-holder and the back of the lamp are exposed in the loft space (and debris may "fall in")?
I suppose the only application where the 'open' type down light can be used is if one fits a smoke hood or 'makes a box' for each fitting?

Oooohh dear :-(

 

[AA410]

This thread is interesting and it brings home what we have to contend with on a regular basis have you tried L E D down lighters very little heat if any and the light is great

 

[bugsy]

Aurora Sola Range , a solution to the problem -

Footnote
Don't piddle about with cheap materials it costs you more in the long run!

 

[pennywise]

Aurora Sola Range , a solution to the problem -

Footnote
Don't piddle about with cheap materials it costs you more in the long run!

Just got to get the matching trannies, if there low voltage