fire mans isolator req or not?

[bigspark17]

Commercial premesis shop front/ sign lights. These are all LED illuminated not neon high voltage type. Is a firemans isolator for use only with neons lighting where high voltage exist or any frontage lights??

 

[i=p/u]

They ain't required in petrol station anymore is all I know

 

[iamelectric]

y are they not needed for petrol stations anymore?

 

[i=p/u]

Don't need to install them anymore for whatever the reason I don't know. But in sure someone can tell me

 

[overskilled]

Locally their reasoning...we'd just kick the door in...

 

[tazz]

This would be down to a risk assessment.....firemans switches are not just for neon signs, they are used where a risk is identified on the premises....in a petrol station they would be manly used to isolated pumps, and external lighting, to eliminate a source of ignition. Neon signs where classed as high risk due to 3kv voltage, but the potential was low.....led signs have low voltage but high potential of 20amps or more at 12v, so the source for ignition imo is still there. Conclusion is what are the premises be used for and what are the risks..?

 

[DPG]

This would be down to a risk assessment.....firemans switches are not just for neon signs, they are used where a risk is identified on the premises....in a petrol station they would be manly used to isolated pumps, and external lighting, to eliminate a source of ignition. Neon signs where classed as high risk due to 3kv voltage, but the potential was low.....led signs have low voltage but high potential of 20amps or more at 12v, so the source for ignition imo is still there. Conclusion is what are the premises be used for and what are the risks..?

Being picky, neons are high potential but low current. Daz

 

[tazz]

you know what I ment.....lol

 

[DPG]

Ha ha. I know. Just in one of them moods Daz

 

[bigspark17]

These LED are 240v not 12v.. I cant see the requirement in this instant. Good to see peoples diferent ideas. I'll put it to the store managers risk assesment. On diferent note ... Ipu if it was a garage i would still fireman switch them even if not required anymore!!

 

[snowhead]

Firemans switch is required for Neon signage, not required for 240 / 230v supplied signs.
537.6.1

And petrol stations don't use Neon anymore so don't need the Fireman's switch for signs but still have the Firemans switch for the pumps.

 

[bigspark17]

Thank you snow head.. Exact answer no messing! I will thank you later when i get on my pc.. Unless i can do it off iphone?

 

[tazz]

To display running messages on led matrix signs, the chips controlling each led must be 5v-12v.....230v is converted down.....main chip for these signs is the ws2811.....interesting read if your interested in led signs, basically you can control 10000`s of leds over 2 wires
effect of ws2801 ws2811 led dream strip display--32 pixel.m - YouTube

 

[tazz]

Snowhead....do the show a reason in that reg, for not using fireman switch......this is out of interest

 

[tazz]

Just read amendment.....still open to 1. being external, 2. voltage. 3 wattage. 4 risk assessment.
View attachment 2008_27_summer_wiring_matters_fire_safety_firefighters_switches.pdf