Fire rated clips - any suggestions?

[Octopus]

The wording of the regs is 'to prevent premature collapse'
Typically vague!
My view is that this reg is only aimed at surface mounted wiring, and that wiring enclosed by other building elements such as plasterboard are not affected by this. Seems to be the way that the amd3 rule for escape routes was applied.
I think it is fair to say that if another building element has to come down before the wiring, then the wiring hasnt collapsed prematurely.

And cables "slung" above suspended ceilings with little or no clipping....

BUT it would be useful if the BBB actually stated this!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The wording of the regs is 'to prevent premature collapse'
Typically vague!
My view is that this reg is only aimed at surface mounted wiring, and that wiring enclosed by other building elements such as plasterboard are not affected by this. Seems to be the way that the amd3 rule for escape routes was applied.
I think it is fair to say that if another building element has to come down before the wiring, then the wiring hasnt collapsed prematurely.

This came up on my 18th and the tutor incorrectly informed us that cables would need supporting above a plasterboard ceiling. However this notion was shot down in flames (excuse the pun) on this forum and a member, cant remember who, posted a section from some IET guidance that clearly stated a plasterboard ceiling is suitable as a means of preventing premature collapse of a wiring system. However there may of course be other regulations that a load of wiring laying on a ceiling would contravene!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

duplicate post

 

[Darkwood]

I was initially confused about these regs and still am somewhat but as mentioned it applies to all wiring systems that are contained within the shell of the space be it a room or corridor etc that is simple to understand. This will include all direct clip, all containment systems and their fixings.
The question is whether it does or doesn't apply to cabling above plasterboard, given that standard plasterboard would only probably resist for about 15/20 mins then premature failure of your wiring systems is easily predictable, the whole reason why we introduce these fire resistance install methods is to protect those going into a building like the fire brigade are not going to get caught up do to premature failure the fixing systems of the cabling, if the cable is run on a void side of a standard plasterboard ceiling then one needs to be considerate of the cable runs and/or how they are fixed. If you have clipped a run of cable along the side of the joist itself above standard plasterboard then I would suggest a fire rated clip still and longer screws than normally required, this then means the cable will remain as long as the joist is in position which is a damn site longer than if plastic clips were used.
Noted these are my opinions based on info I can gather, I am currently doing a renovation but it has 1hr fireboard throughout so I am more relaxed about this approach but still do consider runs more carefully to get me into the habit.

Edit -
PS I will add that cables drilled through joints are going to survive the duration of the joists survival so can be ignored, its just long cable runs on the side of joists above standard plasterboard I was raising issue with.

 

[davesparks]

T&E abov eplasterboard is generally going to be running through holes in joists as well as being clipped along the joists so will generally stay in place if all the clips fail and the plasterboard falls down.

 

[Darkwood]

@davesparks
Agree, I did add an edit before your reply just to make that clear.

 

[Bellendian]

Out of interest what are folks using for smaller sizes of swa that might be clipped direct above doorways or along corridors?

 

[freddo]

I usually just make a P clip out of black steel allround band and use a suitable fixing screw.

 

[Darkwood]

You can get cleats with inbuilt steel band or make one by looking all round band around normal cleat, all round band one it's own doesn't really look professional in my opinion.

 

[westward10]

And cables "slung" above suspended ceilings with little or no clipping....

BUT it would be useful if the BBB actually stated this!

Suspended ceilings rarely offer any level of fire protection unless they are certified and correctly constructed. Generally they are aesthetic with any fire protection above them in the void.

 

[Octopus]

Suspended ceilings rarely offer any level of fire protection unless they are certified and correctly constructed. Generally they are aesthetic with any fire protection above them in the void.

I'm well aware of that and the often hideously poor installation methods used above them

Hence my comment!

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Screwfix seem to be showing packs of fire-rated twin & earth clips, except they don't actually have any to buy yet:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/schneide...r-twin-earth-cable-1-2-5mm-silver-100pk/767gv

I saw these on the website, have asked the local wholesalers what price they can give on them (Kew electrical and denmans) will post the prices i get.

 

[netblindpaul]

A standard plasterboard ceiling is 30min fire rating (from building regulations), this is considered by the "industry"as an acceptable duration.
This will be the advice that comes out from the "industry" bodies, all of them.
They will also agree and publish that plastic wall plugs are fine.

I don't know why it is taking so long for it to come out though!

 

[Richard Burns]

Since in domestic very few cables will need to be supported beyond existing practice, I thought of using stainless steel strapping, cut a strip to the length required and hole punch for a fixing screw . Cheap and cheerful, just not practical timewise, despite the low cost, for a regularly used solution.

 

[Darkwood]

A standard plasterboard ceiling is 30min fire rating (from building regulations), this is considered by the "industry"as an acceptable duration.
This will be the advice that comes out from the "industry" bodies, all of them.
They will also agree and publish that plastic wall plugs are fine.

I don't know why it is taking so long for it to come out though!

The duration of standard plasterboard varies dependant on source although I could be persuaded that the regulation does not include cables within the fabric of the building.
The plastic plug fixing is where I disagree and would be interested in your sources for such info.. The BRE have done extensive testing and published their conclusion which is the advice the IET and many other bodies tend to follow, their conclusion for plastic plugs is they are not suitable so I find it strange that this advice will be ignored when it is safety critical.
https://electrical.------.org/media/1578/fire-performance-of-cable-supports.pdf