fire rated or not down lightd

[HappyHippyDad]

That's because it doesn't mention downlights. It mentions fire ratings of ceilings in minutes, the situations in which they apply, and the need for reinstating such ratings if the ceilings are compromised.

I was beginning to think it must be something like that, thanks.

Would still be good to have the section of the document pointed out though if you feel like it? :smile5: As I'm looking and looking and cant find it!

 

[davesparks]

I've looked through the index Dave and also spent 5 mins scanning through the 86 pages but I cant see any mention of downlights. I'm not saying they're not there, I'm sure they are, I just cant find it! Do you know which page refers to the downlights and there situation in a ceiling with roof above?

ps.. Have also just done a search for the word 'downlights' and 'recessed' in Part B and nothing came up? Perhaps you are referring more to do with general requirements in a roof space rather than specifically anything to do with downlights?

The same as all other standards etc you have to read, understand and apply the requirements. They couldn't possibly list every single possible penetration of a fire barrier seperately!

The following sections of part B3, among other sections, apply.

7.2 covers holes for cables etc to pass through, also can apply to downlights etc
7.4 says that holes in fire barriers for downlights etc may need to have the fire barrier maintained, you have to refer to the structural requirements in part B3 to ascertain what is and is not a required fire barrier
7.6 (and following sections) covers pipes passing through fire barriers which applies to us for extractor ducting.

4.1 covers the purpose of minimum fire resistance standards
4.2 covers the minimum fire resistance to be provided for structural elements.
4.4 excludes structures only supporting roofs (subject to exceptions) from the structural requirements

 

[D Skelton]

There is a lot of misconception and I'm still not sure about whether or not they HAVE to be fitted in the ceiling if there is a roof space above. However, I will always fit fire rated ones when there is a loft above as this is recommended by 'Electrical safety first' in Best Practise Guide Number 5 - page 8 section 7.7 - (see link given by TJ in post 8). Their reasons are that this will:

1. Safeguard escape from the premises
2. Restrict the spread of fire.
3. Reduce the risk of premature failure of the roof structure

Also, The Electrical Safety Council recommends fire rated downlights fitted in 'all' ceilings' View attachment 28008

My reply was specifically in response to the OP. If ever I fit downlights and they're not LEDs then they will be mains voltage fire rated. If however a customer didn't have the budget for LEDs and wanted cheap downlights fitted below a flat roof, I'd have no qualms fitting non fire rated lights.

My point was mainly to illustrate that you only have to fit fire rated cans in specific situations. Hence why non fire rated ones would be perfect for a tight void above.

 

[tazz]

I have read through the posts...and wonder if the op and others actually understand what is ment by fire rated fittings. It has nothing to do with the heat produce by the fitting (but is an issue) it is the fire retainment between floors of a building.

 

[D Skelton]

I have read through the posts...and wonder if the op and others actually understand what is ment by fire rated fittings. It has nothing to do with the heat produce by the fitting (but is an issue) it is the fire retainment between floors of a building.

I'd be willing to bet that 99% of domestic sparks don't actually know what the fire rating of a can is actually there for.

Just yesterday I was at the counter at my wholesaler and the fella to my right was ordering downlights, when the sales guy asked if he needed them to be fire rated his reply was along the lines of "err, yes, yes they do need fire rating coz they're gonna be surrounded by insulation innit"?!?!?!?

Even I couldn't let that one slide and swiftly educated him, turns out he wasn't a spark but the builder buying for the spark (so he said!), but I'd have thought as a builder he should know this like the back of his hand! Fire barrier preservation is their realm! Pft!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I'd be willing to bet that 99% of domestic sparks don't actually know what the fire rating of a can is actually there for.

Just yesterday I was at the counter at my wholesaler and the fella to my right was ordering downlights, when the sales guy asked if he needed them to be fire rated his reply was along the lines of "err, yes, yes they do need fire rating coz they're gonna be surrounded by insulation innit"?!?!?!?

Even I couldn't let that one slide and swiftly educated him, turns out he wasn't a spark but the builder buying for the spark (so he said!), but I'd have thought as a builder he should know this like the back of his hand! Fire barrier preservation is their realm! Pft!

I'd like to think that its a far lower figure than that, perhaps 50%, but really it should be common knowledge among domestic sparks as if they believe fire rated means it stops the fitting from catching fire thats pretty scary.

Also, even among the sparks who do realise that a fire rated downlight limits the spread of fire, i wonder how many realise what that little strip around the inside rim of the downlight is for.. i.e the intumescent strip (which breaks and falls off easily)!!

 

[davesparks]

It's probably around the same number of electricians who don't one that there are building regulations other than part P which they have to be aware of!

 

[D Skelton]

It's probably around the same number of electricians who don't one that there are building regulations other than part P which they have to be aware of!

Huh?! Other building regs?!

I thought you got Part P qualified and that's it?! No one told me nuffin' about no other ones guv?!

 

[davesparks]

I shouldn't worry too much, they're only silly trivial things like structural integrity, fire safety, toxic substances, ventilation. You'll never make your £50K/year if you go worrying about that sort of nonsense.