FIRST HOME - Help with new Consumer Unit

[DaniQ]

My partner and I bought our first house a week ago. We don't have much DIY experience but we are determined to learn and do as much work as we can to save cost.

The house is a 3bed an ex-council house built in 1959 and needs a complete refurbishment.

The existing CU is not too old (pvc wires) but we have to add sockets, electric shower...and we prefer to get it upgraded. Please see photos.

I have had an electrician having a look a few hours ago. He said he can move the CU 180 degrees facing the hall with the length of the existing cables. He quoted me £250 for moving the CU, including new CU.

He said he could install the following CU:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/british-g...dual-rcd-consumer-unit/2920g?_requestid=39295

If I replace it I would like to get a good quality one with space for more modules and individual ring per floor for the lights and sockets, 2 sockets outside, an electric shower, induction cooker, oven...

I am thinking something Like:
RCD 1
32A Upstairs Ring Main
6A Upstairs lights
6A Smoke Detector
16A????? Immersion heater - in case the gas boiler fails

RCD 2
32A Kitchen Ring Main
32A Downstairs Ring Main
6A Downstairs Lights
45A Cooker

Do you think I could reuse the RCBOs from my current CU for the new one :
RCBO 1
Electric Shower (9-10kw)

RCBO 2
Outside sockets or kitchen sockets


My questions are:

1. Could you recommend a better Consumer Unit?

2. Would it be to much work and too expensive to split the existing ring socket and lights per floor? Or should just leave as it is?

3. What do you think about using the RCBO for shower and outside or kitchen socket?

4. Could you please arrange the two RCDs in a better way?

5. Do you think the MCD specs are OK (amps)?

6. What do you think about this job for £250?

Thank you very much. We are quite stressed wih the refurbishment and your help would be much appreciated.

 

[Octopus]

Yes, this is what that post is about, replacing this CU. I'm trying to find the right one to fit in between the timber.

Dare I suggest you ask the spark who is going to do the work?

 

[DaniQ]

Just to clear out a few points to understand where I'm coming from:

I work in IT (Comms) where the work has to be planned very methodically to make sure you don't f*** up, leaving a few thousand users having a long break while you try to fix it. Then I a'm bit of control freak...Probably you know that by now.

I'm not Polish, I'm Spanish instead.

I'm not going to do the CU move myself. The Polish electrician will do it, I got a few things done by him in the past and he's been completely fine.

I'm trying to get everything organised before he arrives to install a CU to find this doesn't fit, with the clock ticking and money running out of my pocket.

You probably think...leave it to the professionals but I'm just planning and trying to understand as much as I can to avoid mistakes.

My partner and I have been saving money for the last 8 years to get to this point and as you can imagine after all this effort we want to do things right.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Don't scrimp on the electrics, I only use Schneider or MK boards as there top quality and parts readily available. Your Electrician should be advising you about all these questions you are asking as he can see everything onsite. He should be able to determine the layout of the circuits in the board and advise the best options, have you had an EICR carried out at all? £250 seems very cheap and I wouldn't install a BG board, cheap and nasty. I usually charge between £400-450 including full EIC, do your water and gas bonding need upgrading? When it comes to electrics pay a professional to do the work and make sure there a member of an organisation such Stroma, NICEIC, Elecsa etc, you will pay more than £250 but at least the job will be done properly and you won't have to keep posting on here asking questions.

 

[Andy78]

You probably think...leave it to the professionals but I'm just planning and trying to understand as much as I can to avoid mistakes.

My partner and I have been saving money for the last 8 years to get to this point and as you can imagine after all this effort we want to do things right.

Doing things right, avoiding mistakes, and saving money, does mean leaving things to the professionals. The right professionals who are fully aware of the electrical regulations and legal requirements of this country. You need to verify you will be getting an electrical installation certificate and a building control certificate. You can research if your electrician will be able to notify building control without added cost or complication to yourself.

 

[Midwest]

Just to clear out a few points to understand where I'm coming from:

I work in IT (Comms) where the work has to be planned very methodically to make sure you don't f*** up, leaving a few thousand users having a long break while you try to fix it. Then I a'm bit of control freak...Probably you know that by now.

I'm not Polish, I'm Spanish instead.

I'm not going to do the CU move myself. The Polish electrician will do it, I got a few things done by him in the past and he's been completely fine.

I'm trying to get everything organised before he arrives to install a CU to find this doesn't fit, with the clock ticking and money running out of my pocket.

You probably think...leave it to the professionals but I'm just planning and trying to understand as much as I can to avoid mistakes.

My partner and I have been saving money for the last 8 years to get to this point and as you can imagine after all this effort we want to do things right.

You might want to have read of this thread then;

Few questions for an electrical installation - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/few-questions-for-an-electrical-installation.122134/

 

[suffolkspark]

whats wrong with that board? its got the stab bus bar so just buy a selection of crabtree rcbo's to stick in it? better to do that if your on a budget than buying some BG piece of garbage

 

[Billsays]

whats wrong with that board? its got the stab bus bar so just buy a selection of crabtree rcbo's to stick in it? better to do that if your on a budget than buying some BG piece of garbage

Suffolkspark is right, you have an 11 way starbreaker consumer unit, you just need Crabtree Starbreaker RCBOS for all the circuits. Bin the old style 2 module RCBOS to maximise your capacity at the ccu.
I would be a bit wary if your Pole didn't point that out straight away.

 

[davesparks]

Suffolkspark is right, you have an 11 way starbreaker consumer unit, you just need Crabtree Starbreaker RCBOS for all the circuits. Bin the old style 2 module RCBOS to maximise your capacity at the ccu.
I would be a bit wary if your Pole didn't point that out straight away.

whats wrong with that board? its got the stab bus bar so just buy a selection of crabtree rcbo's to stick in it? better to do that if your on a budget than buying some BG piece of garbage

Taking all of the guts out and replacing them puts it into dubious territory on the non-combustible CU front. Especially considering that, as far as I know, the whole lid is plastic not just the window.

 

[davesparks]

^^ that board DOES NOT have RCD's it has rcbo's

Read my earlier post - it's obsolete - and needs changing ....

In the interests of being irritatingly pedantic, an RCBO is a type of RCD, what that board does not have is RCCBs

 

[suffolkspark]

It's existing and if not in a sole means of escape doesn't even warrant a C3 on EICR so IMO perfectly upgradeable and useable and a better option than to replace with some piece of s*** BG unit which I'm pretty sure we all know by now isn't going to get tested properly either!

 

[Billsays]

Taking all of the guts out and replacing them puts it into dubious territory on the non-combustible CU front. Especially considering that, as far as I know, the whole lid is plastic not just the window.

What guts?

And wasn't you waffling on about no such thing as non combustible the other day?

Honestly the people that post on this forum, you wonder it they ever worked in the real world !

 

[Midwest]

Old CU's and new RCBO's are some times compatible, as long as you seek manufacturer guidance first. However, I fitted two Hager RCBO's in one of their older CU's, and there wasn't a lot of room for the wiring termination.

Some manufacturers offer RCBO populated CU's, which are cheaper to purchase than individual devices, and the CU has been designed for RCBO's.

 

[Risteard]

^^ that board DOES NOT have RCD's it has rcbo's

Read my earlier post - it's obsolete - and needs changing ....

Actually given that RCBOs are a type of RCD it most certainly does have RCDs. It doesn't have any RCCBs however.

 

[Risteard]

Sorry davesparks I hadn't seen your post when I posted that.

 

[Octopus]

Actually given that RCBOs are a type of RCD it most certainly does have RCDs. It doesn't have any RCCBs however.

Boys ......... the vast majority of Joe Public don't understand the differences ........ so I stand by my statement (and I don't think the later versions of the RCBO will fit that board ).

The OP needs a new CU............. end of.

 

[telectrix]

i agree. due to the busbar layout on these boards, it's next to impossible to re-configure them.

 

[Billsays]

i agree. due to the busbar layout on these boards, it's next to impossible to re-configure them.

What's to reconfigure? This board has no RCDs, it's a Crabtree starbreaker board with a main switch. Remove the mcbs and the obsolete double module RCBOs and replace with modern RCBOs. Gives the Op all the capacity he needs.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

 

[Midwest]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

I can see this being contentious

 

[Billsays]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

Really? please explain.

 

[Risteard]

This board has no RCDs

Once again, that statement simply isn't correct. RCD is a generic term for all residual current devices which includes RCBOs.

 

[Billsays]

Once again, that statement simply isn't correct. RCD is a generic term for all residual current devices which includes RCBOs.

I thought it was pretty obvious I meant a double pole type of RCD used to make a ccu split load or 17th edition......... But you are absolutely right to pull me on it. (And technically correct is of course the best kind of correct )
I apologise for my tardy parlance and will strive to be clearer in future.

 

[davesparks]

What guts?

And wasn't you waffling on about no such thing as non combustible the other day?

Honestly the people that post on this forum, you wonder it they ever worked in the real world !

By guts I am referring to the internal parts of the CU.

I don't know if I was 'waffling on' but yes I have often commented on the fact that everything is combustible if exposed to the right conditions.
If and when I make that departure from the regulations I do so after considering the individual situation, not as a one size fits all solution.

 

[davesparks]

What guts?

And wasn't you waffling on about no such thing as non combustible the other day?

Honestly the people that post on this forum, you wonder it they ever worked in the real world !

By guts I am referring to the internal parts of the CU.

I don't know if I was 'waffling on' but yes I have often commented on the fact that everything is combustible if exposed to the right conditions.
If and when I make that departure from the regulations I do so after considering the individual situation, not as a one size fits all solution.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Just to let you chaps know , did some one ask about moving a consumer unit in scotland in bunglow recenty on this forum?

 

[Midwest]

Come on buzz, there's nothing much else happening.

 

[Midwest]

Is the existing board metal clad?? If not then the board needs changing to comply with current regs.

To give my opinion;

If the replacement items change the original installation, e.g. dual RCD to fully populated RCBO's, then I would consider that a significant change to the original installation, therefore would need to comply with current regs (i.e. 421.1.201).

If the installation was the additional RCBO or two, then it would not. We did have a recent debate on moving a plastic CU from one room to another, which I think came out 50-50.

As I said earlier, it is probably more financially viable, to install a new A3 fully populated CU, than just buying x amount of RCBO's to install into a plastic one.

Bottom line is, there is no one who can tell you how to interpret this reg in these circumstances, and unless you find yourself gripping some bars, being questioned about your reasoning, you can do what you think complies with this reg.

Edit; you could ask your scheme if your in one, but I suspect they would bat it back to you, and say it was the designer to make the decision.

 

[Octopus]

Just to let you chaps know , did some one ask about moving a consumer unit in scotland in bunglow recenty on this forum?

Yes - it was also by the same chap ...... it would appear that he ignores what he doesn't want to hear...

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Really? please explain.

Let me explain, you are moving the board from one location to another. You will be disconnecting all the cables and supply to the board. You want to strip the board down so you can try and fit suitable rcbo's. You are installing it in a new location. You must comply with current BS7671 regs. The work must be notified to LBC. The work must be done by a qualified Electrician who is a member of a scheme so the work can be done properly, to current regs, certified and notify LBC. If you want yours electrics done right and have no issues later on if and when you want to sell the property then pay a qualified Electrician to do it right, if your not going to do that then stop asking questions on here and ask your own Electrician who's charging you £250 and on about installing a sub standard board. Good Luck.

 

[Billsays]

Let me explain, you are moving the board from one location to another. You will be disconnecting all the cables and supply to the board. You want to strip the board down so you can try and fit suitable rcbo's. You are installing it in a new location. You must comply with current BS7671 regs. The work must be notified to LBC. The work must be done by a qualified Electrician who is a member of a scheme so the work can be done properly, to current regs, certified and notify LBC. If you want yours electrics done right and have no issues later on if and when you want to sell the property then pay a qualified Electrician to do it right, if your not going to do that then stop asking questions on here and ask your own Electrician who's charging you £250 and on about installing a sub standard board. Good Luck.

I,m more in the camp of post #50.

Your making it sound a bigger job than it actually is. Existing CCU is perfectly up-gradable.

 

[telectrix]

i may be wrong here, not having used a starbreaker board for ages, but aren't some of thos busbar slots Neutrals for the D/P RCBOs?

 

[MerlinGremlin]

I,m more in the camp of post #50.

Your making it sound a bigger job than it actually is. Existing CCU is perfectly up-gradable.

Do what you want, I've only been doing Electrics for over 20 years, done an apprenticeship etc. What do I know, but don't come posting on here when you can't get it signed off because you have used a plastic board and not a metal clad one as per the regs but what the hell, just do what you want.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

i may be wrong here, not having used a starbreaker board for ages, but aren't some of thos busbar slots Neutrals for the D/P RCBOs?

Let him find out the hard way as he keeps telling us what he's doing even though he's not qualified, his polish electrician can determine that.

 

[Billsays]

i may be wrong here, not having used a starbreaker board for ages, but aren't some of thos busbar slots Neutrals for the D/P RCBOs?

No Tel, the supply Neutral is behind the load neutral, it is hard to see. its a bit clearer here...... Crabtree Starbreaker RCBO 32 Amp 30mA B32 Type B 32A 61/B3230 Older Style - Willrose Electrical - Discontinued & Obsolete Circuit Breakers - https://willrose-electrical.co.uk/product/crabtree-starbreaker-rcbo-32-amp-30ma-b32-type-b-32a-61b3230-older-style/?gclid=CjwKCAjwtdbLBRALEiwAm8pA5ZDMauaYMe_BlqLV2MECNxoemKx69FEYSnjLIpQ114Je94eN_O8APRoC1TgQAvD_BwE

I use starbreaker a lot!

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Aren't they obsolete the starbreaker rcbo's ?

 

[Billsays]

Do what you want, I've only been doing Electrics for over 20 years, done an apprenticeship etc. What do I know, but don't come posting on here when you can't get it signed off because you have used a plastic board and not a metal clad one as per the regs but what the hell, just do what you want.

Calm down mate, Ive been doing it a fair bit longer than you and know what i,m talking about.
The op is fishing on various sites for info........does the mystery polish electrician exist? I doubt it. I'm just debating whether the existing ccu can be re used.

No starbreaker are not obsolete.

 

[telectrix]

No Tel, the supply Neutral is behind the load neutral, it is hard to see. its a bit clearer here...... Crabtree Starbreaker RCBO 32 Amp 30mA B32 Type B 32A 61/B3230 Older Style - Willrose Electrical - Discontinued & Obsolete Circuit Breakers - https://willrose-electrical.co.uk/product/crabtree-starbreaker-rcbo-32-amp-30ma-b32-type-b-32a-61b3230-older-style/?gclid=CjwKCAjwtdbLBRALEiwAm8pA5ZDMauaYMe_BlqLV2MECNxoemKx69FEYSnjLIpQ114Je94eN_O8APRoC1TgQAvD_BwE

I use starbreaker a lot!

i stand corrected. just was looking at a couple of RCDs i have in stock from a strip-out. 2 porongs, but the N is separate so those 2 prongs must both be L's. if that makes sense.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Calm down mate, Ive been doing it a fair bit longer than you and know what i,m talking about.
The op is fishing on various sites for info........does the mystery polish electrician exist? I doubt it. I'm just debating whether the existing ccu can be re used.

No starbreaker are not obsolete.

Sorry I thought you where the OP, my apologies, he just needs to sort it out with his electrician and stop posting on every forum under the Sun, again sorry, I've had a carp day with a carp CPN board that shouldn't even be allowed to be sold.

 

[Billsays]

Sorry I thought you where the OP, my apologies, he just needs to sort it out with his electrician and stop posting on every forum under the Sun, again sorry, I've had a carp day with a carp CPN board that shouldn't even be allowed to be sold.

No worries mate, it can get confusing who says what!

Can't stand those cheap boards, CPN, BG etc i think they are the reason Amendment three was introduced! Is CPN Citys own brand?

 

[suffolkspark]

in ref to post #75 yes but the 1 module ones fit. the bus bar is continuous in these boars, they had plastic inserts in the split load ones but this is a straight bar so nothing else in the board needs changing. lets face it its not going to get a certificate on anyway that's even if this polish electrician exists, I would much sooner a DIYer use that crabtree board over a new BG one as he's got a third more connections to potentially leave loose with his neon screwdriver!