Fixings to kingspan for hanging tray

[edexlab]

I've been asked to look at a method to fix tray hanging via threaded rod or something similar fixed to a kingspan roof , this is not the building roof btw but part of a machine enclosure

Normally I'd punch a small old screwdriver in and use self tappers/tekscrews to fix unistrut and hang it from this,
not the ideal but it does work
( nb punched as it gives a bit more metal surface for the screw to bite on rather than just the thickness of the metal skin if you were to drill it)

Threaded rod through the kingspan bolted above is not allowable and riveting blind rivets or rivnuts are probably not sufficient really
so I'm just checking if there are any other methods used that I've not come across/thought of
Any sensible ideas would be much appreciated

 

[Silly Sausage]

 

[CockneyReject]

So which idiot has issues with you tram lining uni and dropping your hangers down from that? That would be top of my list in that sort of situation everytime

 

[edexlab]

Btw dave I don't use the forum for windups and stupid questions and never have.
I always do my own research before posting and as I can't find anything which seems suitable for this , hence I'm asking here, as another member may have had to do something similar, this is not my idea or reccomendation to fix to kingspan but it's what I've been asked to explore as a possible method
I think thats reasonable enough
apologies about the lack of info on the install originally but I didn't think it was relevant!

And where I'm working now there are several people who come up with daft ideas and ignore the sensible suggestions as in many places it's unfortunately not unusual!

 

[edexlab]

So which idiot has issues with you tram lining uni and dropping your hangers down from that? That would be top of my list in that sort of situation everytime

Ha a very rich and successful Idiot who generally vetos things on a whim!
Don't you just hate these people!

 

[Silly Sausage]

Btw dave I don't use the forum for windups and stupid questions and never have.
I always do my own research before posting and as I can't find anything which seems suitable for this , hence I'm asking here, as another member may have had to do something similar, this is not my idea or reccomendation to fix to kingspan but it's what I've been asked to explore as a possible method
I think thats reasonable enough
apologies about the lack of info on the install originally but I didn't think it was relevant!

And where I'm working now there are several people who come up with daft ideas and ignore the sensible suggestions as in many places it's unfortunately not unusual!

OK, how about using poor thermally conducting materials.
A square metre (say) sheet above the Kingspan with a rod dropped down to below, to hang your tray off.
As has already been asked, how is the KS fixed to the ceilings?

Or, maybe you could employ the use of catenary wires?


Hard to say without being onsite!

 

[CockneyReject]

With a passion mate, if he's so set against using common sense hand him your tools and tell him you'll come hang the tray once he's sorted some supports

stick to your guns and grind him down mate a set of tram lines is head and shoulders above trying to do anything with kingspan, out of interest what's the process?and if you penetrated the steel on the other side of the kingspan and sealed it afterwards why is here an issue with that method?definately don't envy you I hope he's paying you well for the ball ache he's causing

 

[edexlab]

I've just reread some of the threads and noticed some reference to the type of kingspan used as insulation (sandwiched between tin foil) this is not the type used here!
I'm talking about the stuff they use for industrial buildings has @1mm (I think) steel sheets with insulation between!

 

[edexlab]

Catenary wires also not of any use here due to reasons already mentioned plus there would need to be a few to replace 6" tray which wouldn't look good!
Can I reiterate its a decent fixing method that is relevant here not the install!

 

[davesparks]

I've just reread some of the threads and noticed some reference to the type of kingspan used as insulation (sandwiched between tin foil) this is not the type used here!
I'm talking about the stuff they use for industrial buildings has @1mm (I think) steel sheets with insulation between!

Right, it sounds just a little bit more viable now then, I think most people think of the standard insulating board when you say 'kingspan'

The question of what it holding the kingspan in place is still relevant, and the existing box section supports will still be infinately better. the call to kingspan technical will probably be slightly more productive too.

If it is 1mm steel sheet you'll probably get self drilling screws to hold fast in it, but you'll want a nut plate with as big a footprint as possible and a fair few fixing holes.

 

[CockneyReject]

So the insulated steel sheets are laid ontop of the steel box sections and fixed from the top??

The he only other things I can think of is but some uni up to the box sections and weld them or drill and tap the box section and screw the rods into it and lock off with nuts but as you say the spacing of the box sections aren't ideal

 

[edexlab]

Cockney reject
The process is environmental controls for moulds used for aerospace and other precision products.
They are a professional company, a world leader in this industry and this install method has been used for sometime, they're trying to break away from the "that's the way we've always done it" mentality and improve things for the product itself and the guys who install it and asked for suggestions on improvements that can be made,
This was one such suggestion, I've been given the job of looking at its viability as the guy who mentioned it just said you can't do it ,but didn't have any clue how to do it as he's only ever worked here!
Whereas I come from an installation background electrically and previously in engineering, but as usual they don't want to spend too much doing it

 

[edexlab]

The kingspan is self supporting really its built tight around the frame and rests upon it, but not fixed to it, however its not going anywhere,
they use angled flashing rivetted to it so it's strong enough to walk on due to the box section spans below.
I've already suggested welding drilling and tapping unistrut to frame etc but the present method is the inverted tray is on unistrut screwed to tapped holes in the box section, the idea is to reduce the distance of the supports for the tray and lower the amount of work onsite by using a quicker fixing method to reduce the time spent and give the option of running directly to equipment rather than taking a more indirect route by following the frame work .

 

[CockneyReject]

Ah right not been able to penetrate the ceiling fully makes more sense now, bit of a rock and a hard place situation then, I'd give up on looking for fixing methods through 1mm steel that will take the weight of the tray and the cables, use the kingspan tech department to your advantage hit the guy who's saying no to your preferred method with the facts and give him the big sell on the way you want to do it

 

[Tiny Spark]

The best thing would be to mount uni strut to the existing frame and then mount your tray to that I would think.
However if you must fit to the KS, If its the stuff I am thinking of you can sucessfully mount low weights to it using self tapping screws and support brackets.
I would think lots of top hat brackets would do the trick, Or if you need to put more weight on it can you fix a large spreader plate/s to the KS and then mount brackets and tray to that.
I dont see drilling right through being a problem as long as the holes are sealed back up properly (unless of course they are vac chambers or something?)

 

[sammyshooter]

Drill a hole, spray water Into it, gorilla glue the rod, screw it in, leave it a day.

That stuffs the nuts, it expands into all the little holes and the threads. Should give enough for your tray.