French Fuse Box

[Dom.]

A friend bought a house in France and asked me a few questions I couldn't immediately answer.





I'm sure those are the same posts that are used on the back of my hifi speakers.. hang on a minute.. yes they are!

There are four speaker posts, one for each phase and I assume the red one's neutral, which I assume goes to a rod outside?

When the speaker posts proved inadequate a distribution board was added. I would replace the three speaker posts with three CUs; making it easier to balance the phases for one.

Thought you might find Johnny Foreigner's efforts amusing. Can I say that? Anyway it's here for your amusement/suggestions/helpful nuggets of experience.

Dom.

 

[Geordie Spark]

well is she french??..lol.....
Always been suspicious of french engineering though i have......they dont arf build a lovely bird though dont they..yhhmmnnmm

Nah ..... she's a Pikey - from a family of travelling showmen, originally part of Pat Collins Fairs in Staffordshire or thereabouts.

Built like a brick outhouse but with a lovely nature & brilliant humour. Good cook too !!!!

 

[Engineer54]

Nah ..... she's a Pikey - from a family of travelling showmen, originally part of Pat Collins Fairs in Staffordshire or thereabouts.

Built like a brick outhouse but with a lovely nature & brilliant humour. Good cook too !!!!

Into big girls are you then Geordie?? lol!!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Into big girls are you then Geordie?? lol!!!

After 27 "not-so-big" girls with no personality or humour I am now bonny lad !!!

 

[Dom.]

That must be a very old CU, for a rural installation too i bet!! It's the smallest i've seen in France!! These day's they would be at least 3 X the size of that one, and that would be a small one...lol!! Now they fit everything into there DB'S timers, ELV TX's, SW/relay's, ...the whole nine yards go in them now....lol!!

The TV signal/Router/AV also has to be distributed from here I hear, if you want to get the work signed off. Altho my friend is looking to retire here, so a) the roof etc only has to last twenty years b) selling will be someone else's problem.

My understanding is their new DBs use double pole circuit breakers (handy on a RCD board when you have a neutral to earth fault) also 2 way switching forget it they have a latch module fitted at the DB and they wire the lights off it and pulse switches ie switch down and spring return so you can fit as many swithes as you like ie no intermediate. Also if new build or update you run the cables in white flexi conduit so 30 years down the road its a scooosh to rewire. Old elctrics wel they have some properties in the same state as ours just seen a property in the new town (Edinburgh) and it had the original 1920 doble pole fuseboard plus VIR cables to boot. One other thing is about 10 years ago France still had duel voltage supplies in some areas ie 110v and 230v How do I know this Well looked into getting a property 10years ago and spoke to a guy who lives over their last week

Spot on oldtimer!! Though generally the DP breakers are on TT systems, of which there are a great deal of in France. They also use a fair bit of neutral switching on control circuits, which is a bit strange...lol!!

I like their pulse on pulse off idea. They insist on Radials with 8 sockets per Radial and insist on singles pulled through Gaines - now that sounds like a right Ball Ache to me. There are four bedrooms, so that's four Radials plus lghting going downstairs.. Here's an idea.. What about a DB at the top of the stairs and
ONE
FAT
cable going from the DB, down the stairs, across the living room, and to the CU @ the front door? Is that permittted I wonder?

The kitchen will have to be balanced across three phases so I guess a fistful of cables WILL HAVE to be run from the kitchen to the CU.. Then again the DB in pic 4 is three phase - in pic 2 you can see a large grey cable wired into all three speaker posts & N - that's the cable which runs to the DB @ the bottom of the stairs in pic 4.

What are the merits/pitfuls of having fuseboxes spread around, or is it better to shove it all in "one fusebox under the stairs"?

Thanks Oldtimer & Engineer 54

 

[oldtimer]

Just to expand 2 way or even 2way intermediate they have a pulse relay in the panel and you wire the light in parallel from the module and the same with the switches so in a sense you can have as many switches you like because it is just a pair looping in and out with the switch on a spring return ie send the pulse light come on send it again lights go off this sounds like a trainees dream in this country no more passwires or strappers as you call them

 

[Dom.]

I do like their pulse on pulse off idea..

T+E is a no no out in France, which is seriously unfortunate. But is pulse on/off a no no in England? I hadn't seen it before. Unlikely to use it. But it's nice to know it's an option.


BTW If a forum post is three pages long do I have to click the back button four times to get back to the main menu?? I just can't seem to find the appropriate button in these forums. I'm no stranger to forums, but this one has me stumped... where's the button peeps?

 

[Engineer54]

The TV signal/Router/AV also has to be distributed from here I hear, if you want to get the work signed off. Altho my friend is looking to retire here, so a) the roof etc only has to last twenty years b) selling will be someone else's problem.





I like their pulse on pulse off idea. They insist on Radials with 8 sockets per Radial and insist on singles pulled through Gaines - now that sounds like a right Ball Ache to me. There are four bedrooms, so that's four Radials plus lghting going downstairs.. Here's an idea.. What about a DB at the top of the stairs and
ONE FAT cable going from the DB, down the stairs, across the living room, and to the CU @ the front door? Is that permittted I wonder?

The kitchen will have to be balanced across three phases so I guess a fistful of cables WILL HAVE to be run from the kitchen to the CU.. Then again the DB in pic 4 is three phase - in pic 2 you can see a large grey cable wired into all three speaker posts & N - that's the cable which runs to the DB @ the bottom of the stairs in pic 4.

What are the merits/pitfuls of having fuseboxes spread around, or is it better to shove it all in "one fusebox under the stairs"?

Thanks Oldtimer & Engineer 54

I've not heard about tv boosters and routers etc, being incorporated in the DB's before, are you sure about that?? I can foresee some very real problems with signal interference/degradation if there not in a screened off area of a common multi phase DB unit!!

Not sure about twin DB's, but that's a common occurance in Cyprus, i have a CU on my landing upstairs that caters for all the upstairs room installations, and like your situation, my supply is 3 phase too!! I personally don't like it, and was more than a little pi***ed off when i saw it. As this is France, lol!! do it the way which is easier for you!!

As far as i know, you can use there circular multi core building cables for your install, that incorporates 3/4 /5 (with full sized CPC) solid core conductors. you can't use our T&E type cables, that is a very big no, no!! lol!!


I'd be very careful mind, they have some very Draconian rules about who can and can't house wire. So do a bit of investigation on that score before you start anything. As they WILL demand you pull it all out if you contravene any of there rules or regulations

 

[Engineer54]

I do like their pulse on pulse off idea..

T+E is a no no out in France, which is seriously unfortunate. But is pulse on/off a no no in England? I hadn't seen it before. Unlikely to use it. But it's nice to know it's an option.


BTW If a forum post is three pages long do I have to click the back button four times to get back to the main menu?? I just can't seem to find the appropriate button in these forums. I'm no stranger to forums, but this one has me stumped... where's the button peeps?

No reason i can see why you couldn't use the pulse relay system for switching in the UK, there's nothing wrong with it at all. Also used a great deal in Germany too, as well as many other European countries... You'll need a much bigger CU mind!!!

Just click the box with the page number you want (at the top or bottom of each page) and it will take you to that page....

 

[Dom.]

I've not heard about tv boosters and routers etc, being incorporated in the DB's before, are you sure about that?? I can foresee some very real problems with signal interference/degradation if there not in a screened off area of a common multi phase DB unit!!

(As I understand it.) There's a requirement for each room to have an RJ45 socket going to the CU. What you plug it into at the CU is up to you. The phone line, the broadband, the tv signal. A beer keg perhaps? No, need one of those Star Trekky things for that...

I'd be very careful mind, they have some very Draconian rules about who can and can't house wire. So do a bit of investigation on that score before you start anything. As they WILL demand you pull it all out if you contravene any of there rules or regulations

I'm mystified at how the previous owner was able to sell it. Did you see the line of choccy boxes above the speaker posts in pic 2?
The 3 phase cable going to the DB in pic 4 has been cut in two and a choccy box inserted, a wire from a large HWC has then been inserted into 'said choccy box. The choccy box is pinned to the wall, as the wire is.
You can see another wire cut into with a choccy box in pic3 top left...
...
First thing on the list: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electricity-your-French-house-techniques/dp/221212712X/ref=pd_rhf_se_shvl3.

 

[oldtimer]

(As I understand it.) There's a requirement for each room to have an RJ45 socket going to the CU. What you plug it into at the CU is up to you. The phone line, the broadband, the tv signal. A beer keg perhaps? No, need one of those Star Trekky things for that...



I'm mystified at how the previous owner was able to sell it. Did you see the line of choccy boxes above the speaker posts in pic 2?
The 3 phase cable going to the DB in pic 4 has been cut in two and a choccy box inserted, a wire from a large HWC has then been inserted into 'said choccy box. The choccy box is pinned to the wall, as the wire is.
You can see another wire cut into with a choccy box in pic3 top left...
...
First thing on the list: Electricity in your French house : Rules and techniques explained in English: Amazon.co.uk: Thomas Malcolm: 9782212127126: Books.

French and Scottish law on selling houses are similar ie property sold as seen plus when you submit an offer in Scotland you have bought a house in France you have 7 days to cool of in England you can withdraw your offer 5 minutes before to sign contracts

 

[Engineer54]

Another thing people need to consider when buying property in France, especially if either of you as a married couple have been married before. On the death of either one of you, your children from both present marriage AND previous marriages are automatically given claim on the property. So if there are say 2 children from a previous marriage that you don't get on with, for one reason or another, that's two parties against one!! They want to sell you don't, ...you lose!! lol!! You can't circumvent, you can't make a will, depriving them of lawful ownership. Unfortunately there are quite a few countries that have very similar rules too, one that springs to mind is the Philippines...

I've known more than just one Brit couple in France, having to face this dilemma, and one friend in the Philippines... Their life savings swanning off to people they hardly knew and/or disliked!!