French Regs/Signing off French installs?

[rs250250]

Hi All,

I am a qualified electrician, and I have been asked if I would be interested in wiring a chateau in France. Reading other posts, I now know that
The French version of the IEE (CEE) wiring regulations which correspond to the UK regs is NFC15-100 for BT.

What is the process for actually getting the work signed off? Would a UK sparky be able to get work signed off?

Think I will need to brush up on my Francais!

Many Thanks

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[Victor]

Hi WilcoxElec,

I think that the request for a copy of the regs was aimed at me and not your good self. However I do have to agree with your last posting.

I have today visited a house here in France that is owned by an English 'sparky'......... I saw UK switches and UK spur fuses, which brings me to ask the question why do we bother to help others if this is what they do?

Would you ever dream of wiring a house in the UK with French switches etc?

On more than one occasion I have had to rip out UK consumer units and replace with the correct French one, only to be told that the UK one was 'CHEAPER'....was it cheaper after the customer had had to pay for two CU's.....NO!!!!!

 

[Lam Thai]

The regs are just for background reading for me, I been asked by a temple in France to see if I can get a copy of the regs so they can check if the works been done to the regs and advise them. Don't worry we won't go over there to take over your jobs, enough over here Wilcox.

 

[WilcoxElec]

OK... The full regs (NF C 15 -100 ) is a big Two volume document. The Guides from PROMOTELEC are what professionals use -- there are special guides to instalations in public buildings and so on......... Association Promotelec - Centrée sur les enjeux de notre société, l'association agit auprès des particuliers et des professionnels pour un habitat sûr, adapté à chacun et économe ..... I am not defending my business against competition from you ---- I am going this morning to see an instalation done by a someone described as a British Electrician - who has gone back to England leaving the owner without a Consuel certificate.....and very much in danger of losing their supply ...... It can get a bit stressful ! Good luck.

 

[Victor]

Lam Thai

Why are they asking an English (non registered French) electrician to tell them if the install complies with the regs? The fact that you are asking for a copy of the regs (that will all be in French) tells me that you dont know what the regs are.

Get either a French registered electrician to inspect it or have a Consuel inspection.

 

[Lam Thai]

Lam Thai

Why are they asking an English (non registered French) electrician to tell them if the install complies with the regs? The fact that you are asking for a copy of the regs (that will all be in French) tells me that you dont know what the regs are.

Get either a French registered electrician to inspect it or have a Consuel inspection.

The regs are not just for me, they are for Temple. They already spent over 300,000 euros for installations, also they hired french electricians and it took them 3 times to get signed off by the Consuel (different sparkies, different installations). They want to know the regs as guidance, so they don't throw money down the sink.

So they asked me for advice and I said get the copy of the regs and get someone who is technical to understand what they are doing.

 

[WilcoxElec]

The regs are not just for me, they are for Temple. They already spent over 300,000 euros for installations, also they hired french electricians and it took them 3 times to get signed off by the Consuel (different sparkies, different installations). They want to know the regs as guidance, so they don't throw money down the sink.

So they asked me for advice and I said get the copy of the regs and get someone who is technical to understand what they are doing.

If you go to www.afnor.org on the web and search for NF C 15 100 you will find all the definitive versions of the French wiring regs with all the amendments and stuff listed together as available from Boutique AFNOR. The complete version in PDF version would cost you €315,00 the BT section A1 costs €124,00 to download. Since conformity is obligatory the French Govt. has set up a mechanism to allow citizens to consult the texts without charge should they need to, but I can't be bothered to go any further with this. Getting a mention that something needs to be addressed on a Consuel inspection happens to us all – and can be addressed without a further inspection being required. Refusal of a certificate with a need to re-apply shouldn't really happen - in my opinion. Knowing the norms back to front will still not guarantee that in the real world you can cover all the possible observations that might crop up. We all exchange stories about weird things we have been picked up on by the consuel. Buildings receiving the public are a whole level more strictly assessed – which is probably a good part of the reason for the big electricians bills. You will have to see if Victor is more helpful to you than I have been --- sorry..... Good luck ….

 

[WilcoxElec]

The regs are not just for me, they are for Temple. They already spent over 300,000 euros for installations, also they hired french electricians and it took them 3 times to get signed off by the Consuel (different sparkies, different installations). They want to know the regs as guidance, so they don't throw money down the sink.

So they asked me for advice and I said get the copy of the regs and get someone who is technical to understand what they are doing.

If you made sure that obtaining the certification was included in the "Devis" (quote/contract) that they got from the electricians / electrical contractors at the outset then the technicalities of the regulations are irrelevant. This is the usual way of doing things. Some electricians will get the consuel or another third party to do an inspection and report to the client about what needs doing to meet the regulations as part of tendering for the work - to show that the work is justified - and as part of the negotiation.... you need a good experienced French buildings project manager who can find good contactors... .

 

[darrells1963]

Thankyou for posting this. ,,, I would like to say that the people who do the inspections when a property is sold are NOT electricians..... not at all. They have been on some sort of course and have a list of things to check - based on - supposedly typical examples - and they work for estate agents..... .. If I had time I would tell you all about it... -- (and tell tales about how random and annoying such inspections can be - except that they do generate a certain amount of business ......)..

French outlets bought at DIY stores are difficult to wire ---- you need to get used to certain "clips" types, with the right tools and the right wiring - and do several hundred - before you get real quick. I have seen some French sockets put in by an English sparky wired using twin and earth - and without the right box for the type of wall --- he must have swore! :smug2:.

I wonder if you can help me, i am being sent an 'electrician' to do some very basic work for me in a data comms room, his certification is H0-B0-H0V, what does that mean, is he an electrician that can work on both low and high voltage? Appreciate your answer to this.

 

[norcal]

For my own personal curiosity, is a ring circuit permitted in France? The comments in post # 8 is why I ask.

 

[pc1966]

For my own personal curiosity, is a ring circuit permitted in France? The comments in post # 8 is why I ask.

I suspect not.

The UK style of RFC depends on having fused plugs to allow the high diversity of supply breaker (32A) to individual loads, and large area of coverage, without imposing too large a size on the appliance cable (as they only need to be able to clear 3-13A fuse on a fault).

Most of the world use unfused plugs, so the supply breaker has to be sized for I2t limit of the appliance cables. In turn making those cables larger and/or forcing more radial circuits with limited MCB capacity (typically 16/20A max) to keep I2t down.

UK radials can also be 32A if wired in 4mm/6mm (depending on method) due to our 13A plugs, but for any large area it makes more sense to make it RFC in 2.5mm (or 4mm in rare cases) to make it easier to wire while still meeting VD and fault Zs limits.

 

[Mike Johnson]

For my own personal curiosity, is a ring circuit permitted in France? The comments in post # 8 is why I ask.

No, radials only, twelve sockets on 2.5mm and 20amp MCB, eight sockets on 1.5mm 16amp MCB all cables to be all the same c/c, MCB's to be dual pole and only eight to any one RCD, white goods on their own MCB and lot of other special arrangements.

 

[LukeD]

France....... ok to visit .Nightmare to live .Same as Australia . Unless you like forms , forms that make no sense , no sense in anyone you will talk to etc .No wonder so many just drink all day >I would go mad there and I love France .But no way would i live or work there

 

[Mike Johnson]

With the current election going the way they are I am so glad we sold our house in France at the beginning of the year can only see the bureaucracy getting worse.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just in case any UK electricians needing to wire a French house read this thread, all the information you will need is here: L'installation électrique: Amazon.co.uk: Fedullo, David, Gallauziaux, Thierry: 9782416000058: Books - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linstallation-%C3%A9lectrique-Thierry-Gallauziaux/dp/2416000055/ref=asc_df_2416000055/?tag=googshopuk- there has been a lot of Guff posted on this particular thread about inspections, in a domestic situation this does not happen except on new installations, once a supply is in the house what you do after the EDF Tariff switch is up to you, the only inspection ever carried out is on the sale of the property and this is not done by an electrician, it will be visual with RCD buttons being pushed and that's it.

As with any insurance you have a contract with the insurance company, they can not refuse to pay out, only reduce the payout due to contributory negligence and even then they have to prove it.

The book linked to above is profusely illustrated so even a non French speaking UK electrician could understand it with a little help from threads like this, but without the pack drill of protecting their niche of the market.