Full rewire needed? First time home owner

[bd1777]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the helpful advice in this forum. We've recently bought our first house - yay! With that being said, our building survey highlighted the wiring in the house, and an electrical installation report from 2017, when a new consumer unit was installed, suggested a rewire was necessary. We used this to reduce the sale price a bit, but I'm wtill wondering if it is needed. We will likely be replastering the house, so any chases shouldn't be a problem. I am a little worried about disruption to floorboards and things like kitchen tiles. With that being said, the house does have a new consumer unit, and so the grounding should be ok. The wiring looks like maybe 1970s uPVC? I've attached a picture. I've also attached the installation report from the new consumer unit, but I can't find what on it suggests new wiring may be needed. My thoughts are the circuit layout is not great, so a rewire would fix that, and we could add things like mains wired fire alarms, ethernet, etc. It's a 1904ish 3 bed semi that appears to have had the last major renovation in the 1970s.

Any thoughts based on this, or any questions I should ask the electricians we are having come in to provide quotes? Also, since we are going to replaster, would it help to have the plasterer strip the plaster before having the electrian in? I would think this should speed things up a bit and make it easier.

 

[bd1777]

Thanks all! Very useful. We are planning on a likely full replaster for a few reasons. First, there are some ceilings that could use a make-over, some rooms with plaster that sounds blown, and the added peace of mind by getting everything redone in breathable lime plaster to match the solid wall construction. The current state of the house doesn't require a full replaster - likely a partial one would be ok. However, if the benefits of the rewire are big enough, then certainly it would tip the balance to just replastering everything. It's one of those issues, though, that snowballs...if we replaster, we would likely also replace the central heating pipework to make sure everything that is very invasive is done at the same time. A damp survey highlighted that some areas likely had past leaks that were subsequently fixed, so probably not a bad idea to update everything. The downside is that it takes away from the budget we were planning on using to replace a very dated and ready to replace conservatory with a nice orangery or back extension. So it's a bunch of trade-offs. I'm generally of the the mindset to not fall for the sexy visual ones, instead prioritising ones that make sense for creating a well-put together house that minimises future maintenance.

 

[Baddegg]

You’d be foolish to renovate without at least getting another report done, and as above if you are renovating now is the time for a rewire to your specs for now and the future

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Can anyone explain what my eyes are seeing here:

 

[buzzlightyear]

Can anyone explain what my eyes are seeing here

Figment ov your imagination.

 

[James]

Heat damage?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Figment ov your imagination.

Nonsense. And what's this then?

 

[steph-tux]

@Pretty Mouth
I had the same question... It's why I thought he had only one RCD... In fact, this is probably a bug on the picture.

And I didn't see the 1 to 4 circuit breakers where RCBO...
So, the wiring seems to be ok. But there are probably only a few sockets per room.

For information, I will have at least 6 sockets per bedroom and 12 in the kitchen. We never have enough sockets... An upgrade is probably the best option.

 

[GBDamo]

You've got an installation that is approaching, if not reached, the end of its design life.

That is not to say it won't soldier on fault free for another ten years but you have to ask, are you feeling lucky?

Now is the time to do this before you go mad with the Farrow&Ball and Italian tiles.

Its the one thing stopping me from moving. We both want an older property but there's no way I could start decorating without rewiring. When we look at houses the better half looks how immaculate it is, I'm thinking how much I'd have to rip apart.

Best of luck with the house.

 

[nicebutdim]

Its the one thing stopping me from moving. We both want an older property but there's no way I could start decorating without rewiring. When we look at houses the better half looks how immaculate it is, I'm thinking how much I'd have to rip apart.

I grew up in an old house and still feel like I'm painting the Forth Bridge in trying to maintain it for my folks. If I was in the shoes my parents wore when they bought that place, (and knowing what I know now) I'd have endured many hardships to ensure the infrastructure was as sounds as could be, before any decorative works took place.

 

[cliffed]

Ze 6.63 ? Or 0.62 it’s a Tncs so Max should be 0.35

 

[DPG]

@Matthewd29
I just checked my wiring diagram. In fact, it will be only 32 circuit breakers... I've got electric heaters, with a circuit breaker for each one (not compulsory), and a lot of specific circuits with 1 circuit breaker for each one (compulsory) : fridge, oven, washing machine, ...
And also, there will be a big communication panel (TV, ethernet,...). This will be a huge wiring for a small flat.
As this flat will be considered as a new flat (I have no electricity at the moment), I need to respect the rules to pass the control. And in France, it's compulsory and very strict !

32 circuit breakers in a 2 bed flat is frankly ridiculous. Do the French regs really demand this?

 

[steph-tux]

The minimum necessary is probably around 15 breakers (this is a flat with electric radiators). But it means you would have only 2 or 3 outlets per room, only one light point per room...

Number of breakers necessary for each circuit :
1 - roller blinds
1 - Mechanical ventilation
1 - washing machine
1 - tumble dryer
1 - dishwasher
1 - oven
1 - electric hob
1 - freezer
1 - water heater
1 - day/night water heater management protection
2 - outlets (around 23 outlets compulsory for such a flat) - maxi 12 outlets per breaker (2,5 mm2 wire, 20A breaker)
2 - electric radiators (5 radiators)
1 - light (max 8 light points per circuit breaker)
Total: 15

But I increased the number of breakers for this :

• 3 for electric radiators (1 circuit breaker per radiator)
• 1 for heating manager
• 3 for lights : 1 circuit breaker for 2 rooms (many light points per room)
• 5 for outlets : 1 circuit breaker per room and even 2 for the kitchen and 2 for the living room
• 1 for extractor hood
• 1 for door bell
• 1 for balcony light and outlets
• 1 for communication panel outlets,...

 

[Mike Johnson]

@Pretty Mouth
I had the same question... It's why I thought he had only one RCD... In fact, this is probably a bug on the picture.

And I didn't see the 1 to 4 circuit breakers where RCBO...
So, the wiring seems to be ok. But there are probably only a few sockets per room.

For information, I will have at least 6 sockets per bedroom and 12 in the kitchen. We never have enough sockets... An upgrade is probably the best option.

I hope the 12 sockets in the kitchen are on two separate radials only 6 allowed on any one circuit in the kitchen in France.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The minimum necessary is probably around 15 breakers (this is a flat with electric radiators). But it means you would have only 2 or 3 outlets per room, only one light point per room...

Number of breakers necessary for each circuit :
1 - roller blinds
1 - Mechanical ventilation
1 - washing machine
1 - tumble dryer
1 - dishwasher
1 - oven
1 - electric hob
1 - freezer
1 - water heater
1 - day/night water heater management protection
2 - outlets (around 23 outlets compulsory for such a flat) - maxi 12 outlets per breaker (2,5 mm2 wire, 20A breaker)
2 - electric radiators (5 radiators)
1 - light (max 8 light points per circuit breaker)
Total: 15

But I increased the number of breakers for this :

• 3 for electric radiators (1 circuit breaker per radiator)
• 1 for heating manager
• 3 for lights : 1 circuit breaker for 2 rooms (many light points per room)
• 5 for outlets : 1 circuit breaker per room and even 2 for the kitchen and 2 for the living room
• 1 for extractor hood
• 1 for door bell
• 1 for balcony light and outlets
• 1 for communication panel outlets,...

I would also suggest a separate breaker for:
Smoke alarm
Burglar alarm.

telerupteurs? Suggest electronic rather than the mechanical latching relay which would be very noisy in a small flat, probably four or five needed and they are additional to those listed, but admit have gone over to Quintonic in the last year or so, saves chasing the walls out for switch points when adding a circuit. (old stone property)

That makes 34 breakers which will require five RCD's, (DD's in France) taking into account the requirement of only eight breakers off any DD, that's a minimum of a four row board without any room for expansion, puts my four row board in the shade

 

[nicebutdim]

From rewire advice to circuit protection Top Trumps.

I'm curious about this French flat and whether or not it has a dedicated plant room to house all of these protective devices? Does it utilise RCBOs or are several circuits liable to be taken out by a single RCCB?

I'm sure the OP is delighted to know that continental conventions lavishly throw circuit protection at installations as though they were confetti, but perhaps it might be an idea to explain why this would be better? British convention allows protection of a 2 bed flat from a distribution board no bigger than a box of chocolates, populated by by protective devices that break both poles and provide earth leakage protection to individual circuits. What's better about a board that's as big as a Chevrolet?