They were most likely new when they were installed though. Not really getting your argument here.
What's the difference between putting a s/h MCB into a CU and hoping it's OK and moving into a house with MCBs already installed in a CU and hoping that they are OK?
Don't understand this statement at all. They were new when installed most likely. Suppose your using a 2nd hand boiler then, 2nd hand pipes, 2nd hand bricks as well. Doesn't make much sense.
Your argument doesn't make sense. We're talking about FITTING used devices.
As an analogy, would you pay someone to fit a 2nd hand engine which hadn't been tested to your car?
At least with 2nd hand RCBO you can test the RCD side with your MFT, so have a bit more confidence they are not fake.
The underlying issue is folk get a CU fitted which ought to be good for 10-20 years, but then find a couple of years down the line they can't buy spares any more. True, it is not quite as bad as cars that have routine changes of things, but it is quite bad for the folk finding themselves in such a position.
Ideally there would be proper interchangeability in "standard" MCBs, etc, but short of that there should be a legal requirement to offer spare MCB/RCBO for 10 years after a product line is end-of-life at "reasonable" cost.
The underlying issue is folk get a CU fitted which ought to be good for 10-20 years, but then find a couple of years down the line they can't buy spares any more. True, it is not quite as bad as cars that have routine changes of things, but it is quite bad for the folk finding themselves in such a position.
Ideally there would be proper interchangeability in "standard" MCBs, etc, but short of that there should be a legal requirement to offer spare MCB/RCBO for 10 years after a product line is end-of-life at "reasonable" cost.
I think its just the fact that you dont know their history, how they've been stored, whether they have been repeatedly closed on to faults etc. And you can't test them to prove they are good.
If you buy a S/H MCB it was new when first installed, but it isn't now.
If you move into a house with a CU there, the MCBs in it were new when they were installed, but they aren't now.
I'm sorry I've not been able to explain myself properly - it wasn't my intention to start a row.
I just think that people should think about what is the real difference, per se, between an x-year old MCB which was installed in a CU today and an x-year old one installed in a CU x years ago, and if the former device is regarded with great suspicion because it isn't new then why not the latter?
Nobody is talking about electricians installing used gear as a matter of routine, but in circumstances where a new device is simply unobtainable, and the only alternatives to a used one are either no new/repaired circuit or an entire CU replacement, then is a bit of logical thinking around the fact that hundreds of thousands of people insert used protective devices into their lives, and rely on them for their safety, every time they move house, really not possible?
And after I moved in here I was indeed using a 2nd hand boiler for a while.
As a last resort.
Not a perfect analogy, but we can run with it a bit.
If engines were not repairable, and I had a car which needed an engine, and I couldn't get a new one, and it was a quick and easy job to install a used one I wouldn't rule it out on the grounds that it was used.
In no new car I've ever had have I gone and put a new engine in it, or replaced the tyres just because they weren't new...
These analogies aren't perfect, but the tyre one raises another point. People cavil at the idea of putting s/h tyres on their car, but I'll bet a lot of them buy s/h cars and carry on using the s/h tyres that came with it.
Well obv they would say that. ?
But we only have to "take account" of m/fac guidance now... ?
The problem with mix'n'match is type approval, but if you use devices with a 16kA short-circuit rating so that you don't have to take advantage of the conditional one that manufacturers rate their type-tested assemblies to then you ought to be able to mix'n'match to your heart's content, subject to physical constraints like bus-bar alignment.
T
Teddy Lop
"People" can do as they wish.
As a professional and also as a scheme member you're responsible for what you install, with regard to sourcing genuine parts and observing manufacturer recalls etc, eBay etc guarantees none of this and has also been the source of fake MCBs (mere switches with no coil etc)
same with mix'n'natching components, yes it can be a little annoying when you know many things will work with vanishingly little real danger, and yes its (yet) another example where the idiots on high think over regulating the compliant guys taking care about what theyre doing will somehow address the bodges of those wilfully ignoring any rules, but a compliant solution is rarely more than a little effort and thought away.
Gut feel says that's more likely to be a problem with new devices than used ones. If you're making fake MCBs why go to the hassle of making fake used ones, given the very much smaller market?
A compliant solution is sometimes a little effort, thought, and significant expense away.
I wish I'd never mentioned it - I was never suggesting that people should trawl eBay for second hand CUs, or install s/h components without the customer being aware, only pointing out that sometimes a used device is worth considering and that there really is, logically, not necessarily as much difference between using an MCB that used to belong to Fred and using an MCB that used to belong to Fred because you've just bought Fred's house as there might appear.
But I'm obviously failing to explain myself, so I'll stop trying.
".... so I'll stop trying, and thereby, hopefully, bring conflict and dispute to an end, as I don't want those."
I meant to say.
I meant to say.
I purchase my Fusebox CU's from Mastertrade Supplies | Electrical Wholesaler - https://mastertrade.co.uk/ great service and can't fault these boards for the price so far.
That board is missing the surge protection module, which adds £30+. (they do offer it in another more expensive listing). I assume the RCBOs are also the type AC ones, which are cheaper than type A, again they don't say.
I've looked at this company's prices before, and always found you can do better (e.g. Gil-Lec, or Expert Electrical), but you do need to compare like with like.
T
Teddy Lop
You've completely missed my point. Your scheme requires that you have tracable QA for what you buy and install, unless you have an in-date British standards recognised calibration certificate for your guts then how they feel won't satisfy that.
And I don't know how you quantify old is better than new, many old devices will have never operated!
I'm not saying you have to like it but like the 70mph speed limit or the fact you can't deal with knockers and tool thieves on your own terms, thems the rules. I'm not saying I've never sourced a difficult component using "other" but its something you really want to be wary of and try to avoid, rather than settle for as its the easiest fix.
N
nicebutdim
The image shows type AC and the price would also reflect this. Gil-Lec/Consumer Unit World and Expert Electrical seem to have ongoing 10% off codes with various Youtube sparks - you can pick your favourite ?
Prices on some components are cheaper with one of the above, with the opposite being true of other components. Invariably something will be temporarily out of stock, which may be the deciding factor when choosing between them.
I need to get out more.
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TJC1
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