fused spur to garage and outdoor socket

[Pinners27]

i had an electrician out and they fitted a switched fused spur on to an existing double gang socket in my kitchen to run power out to my garage.

At a later date another electrician then ran another outdoor socket off of the double gang socket.

I'm now having some new patio doors installed and need to move the sockets so they don 't get in the way of the new doors.

My question is, if I remove the switched spur, is it possible/advisable to change the outdoor socket to a fused spur and single gang socket -seems like less hassle to me?

 

[radiohead]

You have not stated how the garage will be supplied if you remove the FCU? Will the garage supply be re-routed to the outdoor FCU?

 

[pc1966]

Yes, a diagram of before & after plans might help folk to grasp what you have and are trying to achieve after the new doors are done.

 

[Pinners27]

Here you go - i still plan on routing it through an FCU - I believe there's another FCU in the garage too

 

[pc1966]

If your socket & garage total is never likely to go above 13A then putting them both off the FCU (as I think you are showing) would be your best option.

Presumably your socket circuit is already RCD protected?
[automerge]1589026199[/automerge]

I believe there's another FCU in the garage too

Is that for the lights? That is a typical way for adding a 3A or 5A fuse limit without the addition of a "garage CU" box for breakers.

 

[Pinners27]

I think the double gang they've come off of already just goes back to the main CU - and it doesn't have an RCD - would i be best replacing the double gang with a RCD D/G?

i have a feeling it's another 13A in the garage, i have an LED flourescent out there, and a tumble drier through the winter months.

 

[pc1966]

You absolutely must have RCD protection on any outdoor sockets!

Changing your CU may not be on your plans just now, but if there is no RCD on that just now then probably your best option is to use a RCD FCU for feeding all of the outdoor wiring. Probably you would need to by it separately from an IP55 or similar enclosure, this sort if idea:

13A RCD Fused Spur 30mA (Latching) - White | Timeguard (RCD10WPVN)

It might be worth a check of how the garage is wired. Often a 13A FCU is used to run a few spurs off an existing circuit on thinner wire (1.5mm T&E instead of the typical 2.5mm T&E) and not risk overloading it so that might be the reason. But equally as most light switches are only 10A rated at most, so it might be to limit that circuit's fault current.

 

[Pinners27]

Thank you for all your help!

Would changing the socket inside to a double socket with an RCD like this do the same job? I don't think the CU has an RCD in it, and they certainly haven't put an RCD in where they put the FCU.

RCD Switched Socket White

PowerBreaker RCD Switch Socket• Passive operation - does not need resetting after a power loss• Twin earth terminals• Conforms to BS7288, BS1363 & BSEN61543• Fits a standard 35mm backbox• 30mA Passive Type A RCD's• Conforms to new BS7288-2016 where Type A RCDs required

www.toolstation.com

 

[radiohead]

In the OP you state that the outdoor socket was installed by an electrician, are you saying the said electrician installed it without RCD protection? Because if so he/she/genderneutral/trans/anybody I've forgotten/ wasn't an electrician.

 

[Pinners27]

HE worked for mr. electric, he also drilled the hole for the cable from inside out, so when it emerged out the other side he blew the bricks - the first and last time i will ever use them.

 

[pc1966]

Would changing the socket inside to a double socket with an RCD like this do the same job?

No, those RCD sockets only protect the thing plugged in to them.

You would need to plug the cable feeding all of the outdoor stuff in using a 13A plug to it (not such a bad idea, but not as convenient as it wired in properly).

I don't think the CU has an RCD in it, and they certainly haven't put an RCD in where they put the FCU.

Can you post some pictures of it so we can take a look?
[automerge]1589030620[/automerge]
Toolstation also do RCD FCU such as this:

RCD Spur White

• PowerBreaker RCD Fused Connection Unit• Passive (does not need resetting after a power loss)• High intensity LED power-on indicator• Fuse holder can be locked out for safety• Twin earth terminals• Conforms to BS1363-4:1995 Amd 1,2,3 and BS7288:1990 Amd 1• Cuts the power for added protection...

www.toolstation.com

If you don't have RCD already it really is a must, even though they are not really intended for protecting "fixed wiring" as such.

 

[Pinners27]

Should be self-explanatory. I’ve removed what was the FCU and now the garage is disconnected. The double gang socket is on the the circuit that’s on the second breaker in on the left hand side labelled ‘socket kitchen part 20A’

to be honest, I don’t even need a socket there in the kitchen anymore. I could just replace the double gang socket with an rcd.

 

[pc1966]

It looks as if all of the left breakers are on the RCCB (another name for an RCD) so you would not need a separate RCD FCU, a normal FCU would do. The picture is very small so it is hard to be sure of what the right had set of MCB are on, there appears to be a 2nd RCCB but what exactly it feeds remains to be seen.

You really should test-trip them regularly though!

But before you do, shut down any PCs and switch off things like TiVo boxes, TVs, fridges, etc, that might be unhappy at the supply going off and back on in a second or so.

 

[Pinners27]

Ok, great. Thank you again for all your help!

 

[pc1966]

One final bit of advice - do you have a socket tester?

Many DIY folks lack any test equipment. While they have many limitations, the ~£10 socket testers will warn of many of the most serious wiring faults (e.g. L & N swapped). Main limitation is they only detect a complete loss of earth, not a high resistance.

You also get ones in the ~£50 that do an earth impedance test which is better, and some also have an RCD test feature (one way to find out if the circuit is protected!) so might be worth considering. For example:

Kewtech Loopcheck 107 13A Advanced Socket Tester 230V AC - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Easy to use, advanced socket tester. Checks socket connections, RCDs, mains polarity and earth fault loop impedance. Indicates safety via high definition LEDs. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Not just for this new arrangement, if you get one you should go around all sockets in your home just to verify they are all good. Not a match for a sparky's MFT for sure, but they are in the £500-1000 range!