Fused spur wired off cooker switch

[longers30]

Hi everyone was looking for some advice on a job that I looked at last night. The house has a new boiler being installed which needs a supply to it. There is an existing cooker switch wired in 6mm on a 30A fuse going to a single socket which the electric oven is plugged into. There is also a switched fused spur directly adjacent to the cooker switch wired in 2.5mm which used to supply an extractor fan. Is it ok to connect the new boiler to this fused spur or is the cooker required to be on its own separate circuit? There is also no RCD protection on the existing old Wylex board which uses bs1361 fuses. Thanks in advance!

 

[Engineer54]

Well don't blindly follow manufacturers instructions if they are irrelevant in or to UK requirements....

Running a multi million pound project on the electrical side of things, from breaking ground through to the 1 year maintenance period is a damned sight more onerous than running a sole trader business in the UK, both contractually and legally....

 

[Engineer54]

Aye follow manufactures instructions and comply with bs 7671 . We getting wrapped up here in personal opinions when it clearly states follow manufactures instructions and If there's a problem and goes to court and you can prove you followed bs7671 , you a free man. There won't be much difference.. Between two guides of info .

All manufactures data should be followed but installed within bs7671. Come on it ain't that hard..

Now that's a contradiction on it's own!!! lol!! And what do you do if it conflicts with BS 7671?? .....Must follow manufacturers instructions still applies??

Are you being serious here, ...you actually blindly follow any old manufacturers instruction/recommendation. Even after seeing some of the crap these manufacturers issue, in the form of instructions etc on this forum?? This is just a load of scaremongering crap with a capital C!!

It's has NOTHING to do with personal opinion either, Jesus some of these manufactures instructions are so blatantly WRONG, and/or obviously refer to other country regulations, that you could just as well be deemed incompetent by following those instructions. You follow instructions when and where they make sense and broadly follow BS7671 guidelines.

 

[Guitarist]

Well don't blindly follow manufacturers instructions if they are irrelevant in or to UK requirements....

Running a multi million pound project on the electrical side of things, from breaking ground through to the 1 year maintenance period is a damned sight more onerous than running a sole trader business in the UK, both contractually and legally....

And I bet that you have all the backup you need if anything goes wrong!!!
What do we have? Daily hassle from customers arguing the ---- about every aspect of our work, more competition than ever before from Electrical Trainee, and scheme providers telling us to follow manufacturers instructions. Of course some of them are ridiculous, and contradictory, but I don't deem the rating of the OPCD in that category.
While I have the greatest respect for your knowledge and experience, it's becoming more apparent recently that you have no respect for anyone who doesn't agree with you!
You may be some bigshot in a multi-million pound setup, but don't belittle how bloody hard it is trying to keep a business going over here, when the only support we have is what we carry in our heads.

 

[Engineer54]

What the hell are you talking about, what's making a valid and ongoing point, got to do be with now being classed as a big shot or something.

As far as the backup you're talking about, who do you think is around, that is going to be available to back me up??

 

[i=p/u]

Well anything I've installed it gives uk instructions and says competent electrician and install within local wiring regs and
and even
mention bs 7671 in most case . And says this MUST BE EARTHED! Old codgers

 

[Engineer54]

Well anything I've installed it gives uk instructions and says competent electrician and install within local wiring regs and
and even mention bs 7671 in most case . And says this MUST BE EARTHED! Old codgers

Yeah right, i've heard all that nonsense before!!

A hell of a lot of our equipment is being purchased from both UK and European sources, Never once seen any European manufactured goods referring to BS7671. Not saying that one or two will do so, but in the majority of cases they won't... What many ''WILL'' state, is that the units connection and installation must be in accordance with your country's local codes and practices. That little statement means that they can get away with direct translations of manuals and installation manuals, the very ones many of you are hell bent on following come what may!! lol!!

The old codgers out there, would know far more about earthing than you younger bucks!! And you can take that fact to the Bank!!

 

[i=p/u]

Plug it in keep it simple for you e54

 

[Des 56]

Time for a little play with words
:yes:

Unless there is another silly paragraph in the good book,the reference to manufacturers instructions would be 510.3

This paragraph does not tell you to "follow" their instructions,it tells you to "take account" of them

Now given some of the instructions I have read (and being Welsh is not the problem)I sometimes could not make head or tail of the Gibberish printed
If you blindly follow this gibberish then you are a better linguist than me

"Take account"when refering to the gibberish, means to me that I can sometimes have some spare bog roll at hand if the need arises

 

[Silly Sausage]

There's a slight contradiction with 134.1.1 here..."Electrical equipment shall installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment" !!!

Depends on how you interpret 'accordance' I suppose!

 

[Des 56]

There's a slight contradiction with 134.1.1 here..."Electrical equipment shall installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment" !!!

Depends on how you interpret 'accordance' I suppose!

Well done with that Archie,if this were a game of cards,I have just had my post trumped once again,oh well perhaps I need a course in universal gibberish

 

[Guitarist]

There's a slight contradiction with 134.1.1 here..."Electrical equipment shall installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment" !!!

Depends on how you interpret 'accordance' I suppose!

Basically, I read it as this :
If manufacturers instructions say "Must be" installed in a certain way, then that's fairly obvious.
If manufacturers instructions say "should be" installed in a certain way, then that's down to making a call for that particular situation.

Regardless of what Eng54 thinks of me and those of us who try to follow these instructions in order to comply with 7671 (when we see them as relevant and applicable to this Country, even if we don't necessarily completely agree with them at times), we do have some common sense, but we also have to be able to sleep at night.

 

[Engineer54]

Basically, I read it as this :
If manufacturers instructions say "Must be" installed in a certain way, then that's fairly obvious.
If manufacturers instructions say "should be" installed in a certain way, then that's down to making a call for that particular situation.

Regardless of what Eng54 thinks of me and those of us who try to follow these instructions in order to comply with 7671 (when we see them as relevant and applicable to this Country, even if we don't necessarily completely agree with them at times), we do have some common sense, but we also have to be able to sleep at night.

Think you have taken offense where none was intentioned!!

Why do you now put the relevant and applicable bit's in brackets now, and why would you comply with an aspect that you don't agree with?? That's another point, how are you complying with UK Reg's if the MI are basically referring to another country's wiring regulations??


All i'm saying here, is don't just blindly follow MI's from overseas manufacturers, and only take notice of what is applicable and still conforms/comply to the essence of BS7671...

Must and should, get's totally lost in translation, believe me i've had this problem on a fair few of occaisions in the past!!

 

[Guitarist]

Think you have taken offense where none was intentioned!!

Why do you now put the relevant and applicable bit's in brackets now, and why would you comply with an aspect that you don't agree with?? That's another point, how are you complying with UK Reg's if the MI are basically referring to another country's wiring regulations??


All i'm saying here, is don't just blindly follow MI's from overseas manufacturers, and only take notice of what is applicable and still conforms/comply to the essence of BS7671...

Must and should, get's totally lost in translation, believe me i've had this problem on a fair few of occaisions in the past!!

If no offence was intended, then I apologise for thinking so.
I have never blindly followed everything which is written in manufacturers instructions, though I do try my best to do so (for the sake of complying with 7671). Unfortunately though, with many pieces of equipment I am asked to install, the instructions are often sketchy and written in pigeon English, with bizarre directions which are obviously wrong...these, I throw away. However, this thread was originally concerning the OCPD, and I merely said that this is an area where I do follow MI.
Eng, you wouldn't believe the rubbish which has found its way over here now, and I feel like weeping at times when a customer tells me where they bought the light fittings which need installing...

 

[davethsparky]

"I found the lights you quoted for online and they were £0.0001 cheaper so I got them there as you were charging me too much, they'll be here in 6 months time and turn up without lamps which you were going to supply and no warranty or returns policy but that's ok cos you'll waste your time getting over the fact they don't work won't you?"

 

[Sparks1962]

"I found the lights you quoted for online and they were £0.0001 cheaper so I got them there as you were charging me too much, they'll be here in 6 months time and turn up without lamps which you were going to supply and no warranty or returns policy but that's ok cos you'll waste your time getting over the fact they don't work won't you?"

This sounds familiar!