G83 pre install application

[yellowvanman]

Spoke to a guy from Scottish & Southern last week. Now the new version of G59 has been released they are being more stringent on the G83 limit. They are reviewing the situation and I was advised to keep within the 3.68kWp limit for the time being. More clarification maybe avaiable in a few weeks.

 

[JulianC]

As usual, the rules aren't clear

I think in this case, the rules are clear. G83, no more than 16A per phase injected onto the grid. The problem is the DNOs are staffed by thickos who seem incapable of understanding this.

 

[solar smart]

We have a meeting with ofgem on the 12/1/2011. We have had numerous returns from the dno for all over 3.6 kw. first time in 10 months we are now putting pre installation applications for all over 3.6 kw. A bit of a git as we have installed over 160 systems 70% of which are over 3.6kw

 

[sherbert]

From my experience i've had touble connecting a 3.5kW system and have been told that the biggest PV system i can install on one house is only 1.9kW. This is way below the 16A G83 limit. Problem is due to overhead lines. On higher outputs the voltage would rise due to volt drop and the inverter would shutdown. Just as well we checked before we installed.
On another note we can apply for an extended G83 up to 42A rather than use G59. My advice is to get a friendly engineer from your DNO and check before you install anything.

simon
South West Free Energy Solar Powers, Solar Energy, Save on your Electricity Bill South Devon

 

[Markc]

From my experience i've had touble connecting a 3.5kW system and have been told that the biggest PV system i can install on one house is only 1.9kW. This is way below the 16A G83 limit. Problem is due to overhead lines. On higher outputs the voltage would rise due to volt drop and the inverter would shutdown. Just as well we checked before we installed.
On another note we can apply for an extended G83 up to 42A rather than use G59. My advice is to get a friendly engineer from your DNO and check before you install anything.

simon
South West Free Energy Solar Powers, Solar Energy, Save on your Electricity Bill South Devon

Out of interest what DNO is that?

 

[sherbert]

Western Power covering the south west and wales

Simon
South West Free Energy Solar Powers, Solar Energy, Save on your Electricity Bill South Devon

 

[Markc]

They seem harsh to only allow 1.9Kw.

 

[TedM]

Reply received from OFGEM concerning the email I sent (see earlier post):


Many thanks for your email. My colleagues in Consumer Affairs passed your query on to me a few days ago and I am now emailing you with our response.



As an initial point we would like to direct you to the DG information guide which has recently been published on the ENA website http://2010.energynetworks.org/link-to-engineering-documents/ (see first 4 documents under Engineering documents-free to download).
This document should clarify quite a few of the queries you have raised below. In addition, there is a feedback mechanism in place to comment on this guide and alert the ENA if there are any bits of information missing. We would also be happy to hear if any information has been found to be missing from the guide.


In addition, we wish to point out that the G83 standard is administered and interpreted by the ENA and therefore several of your technical questions regarding the meaning of this standard should be directed to the ENA in the first instance.



Therefore, I would advise you to review the DG information guide. If you could then let me know if any of your queries are still outstanding. In the meantime, we are reviewing the sections of your query that we feel we can respond to.


Kind Regards


Stacy Altman
Senior Policy Analyst

 

[TedM]

And as follow up to OFGEMs response I have copied the questions to a contact at ENA.

 

[SolarCity]

They seem harsh to only allow 1.9Kw.

Western Power are the the DNO that allow larger installations before moving to G59. I think the 1.9kW limit was for a certain installation - and from what I know, is not enforceable by the DNO anyway.

 

[SolarCity]

And as follow up to OFGEMs response I have copied the questions to a contact at ENA.

Good stuff.

As far as I am aware, DNOs have no right to refuse you connection as long as you fall within G83 and have a complying installation.

 

[Greenday]

What size of array in kWp can you go up to before you have to do a pre install G83 application.

Central networks say 3.68kWp of panels is the maximum before the pre application on Appendix 2 has to made. They quote 45 days for a response although in practice at the moment it can be done in 2-3 weeks.

The 3.68kWp @ 230V would keep it below 16 Amp per phase. My argument with them is that it's what the inverter is rated at that is important and this is typically always smaller then the Array output if you use manufacturers design software.

What are other installers expereince with different DNO's

I'm still not clear whether it's the rating of the array or inverter that is taken into account. Central networks still insist that any array over 3.68kW requires a pre install g83 appendix 2. Our view is if the output from inverter which is g83 approved is less than 16A then no pre install notification is necessary. This was backed up last week by Electricity North West who queried why we had submitted a g83 appendix 2 for an inverter that operated at 15A (total array size was 3.8kWp)

Can someone point me to the document that clearly states that it is the output of the PV array that need to be considered for g83 and not the inverter

 

[yellowvanman]

In Scottish & Southern territory size for the purposes of G83/G59 is the lesser of 1 of the 2 following:

1) peak output of the panels times the max efficiency of the inverter

2) continous rated output of inverter

 

[TedM]

This is one of the questions that I am now awaiting a reply from ENA about.

Clearly each DNO cannot setup their own rules.

 

[SolarCity]

This is one of the questions that I am now awaiting a reply from ENA about.

Clearly each DNO cannot setup their own rules.

This is the problem. Although having 16A as a rule and allowing larger on consideration seems like a reasonable way to go.